Stats Revamp 1.3: Electricity

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by spord, Jan 27, 2017.

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  1. Karasawa Loyal Player

    How do you feel about the 50% increase in heal strength/power cost?

    I haven't healed a raid, but just from playing around it still felt a bit spammy to me.
  2. Trexlight Loyal Player

    This i think is the second time I healed after the Healing update that did last week and i dont mind these changes. I kept everyone up pretty well after i removed Electroburst. If they increase the healing then they need to increase the NPC Damage out. The only reason the raid was a struggle was because of the Atomic Tank issues. I still dont feel any struggle from the raid itself. Even if it is the easier of the 2 Raids in AF3
    • Like x 1
  3. Fies Committed Player

    You ll still have to set up the Dots first :rolleyes:
    On a more serious note (without actually wanting to derail this thread) lets be realistic especially regarding weapons. These will be harder to bring up to par than powers (by far).
    What I was referring to is the overall playstyle "tap * x" + hold-> clipped with a power. Thx to dovetails this is (currently) what we ll be doing over and over. Personally I dont mind whether its SF->X->SF->X ... or SF->X->SF->Y->SF->Z ... bc you ll be doing whatever weapon attack inbetween powers = plenty of time to move your fingers making it "unchallenging" anyways. Removal of Dovetails (+adjustments of CDs) could be a solution to make a "Refresher" unnecessary but would most certainly colide with PftT.
    Im already awaiting the complaints regarding "to easy" "repetitive" "boring" bc clipping a tap+hold with a power over and over is about as dull as 1234 after some time.
  4. Karasawa Loyal Player

    Do you think the raid is too easy now?
    This is essentially what I'd like to see.
  5. Karasawa Loyal Player

    If you find both clipping and 1234 to be boring and repetitive then I don't know what to tell you.
  6. Trexlight Loyal Player

    I think it is but Im also not sure the difficulty of the Elite and even my feedback on it may be skewed since i havent ran Elite on Live so Im not sure what to look for on Test. I think once I try Healing in GoM Ill have a better understanding of difficulty
    • Like x 2
  7. Fies Committed Player

    Yup thats my issue :) In the current implementation I find it about just as boring tbh. But honestly how long do you expect to enjoy SF->1->SF->2->SF->3... repeat. Its new now (well not rly) but that shouldnt last very long (imo).
  8. krytine Loyal Player

    Do you miss the burst heal and hots of electroburst when enemies are electrified?
  9. Karasawa Loyal Player

    I asked him for evidence that Electricity was falling behind and he responded by basically saying, "No, you prove that it's not falling behind!"

    If you'd like to see the results of my testing as well as Rokyn's testing you can click the links below. After comparing Electricity, Sorcery, and Mental it is my conclusion that Electricity is doing pretty well. I have not seen similar contributions by CrappyHeals during these testing rounds.

    Electricity v1.3:

    Electricity v1.3 changes:

    Mental v1.3:

    Sorcery v1.2:

    Sorcery v1.3 damage changes:
    • Like x 2
  10. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    Your taking what i said out of context again lol.

    The above posts on electric are nice (i can only view the fist one though) but thats not really telling anyone if this loadout works better then that loadout or if dots are comparable to a burst laodout. Just writing down descriptions of powers and some damage ranges doesn't really do much in terms of real balance of how things are used and how they work in content.

    I've ran oly using a multitude of different things, i can can tell you what works and what doesn't and also what works best. So like i said the info you have provided is nice but its not telling anyone much in terms of real balance and how things work in content. Not taking credit away from you or anyone who contributed to that but balance and what you provided in the one thread i can see are two different things.
    • Like x 4
  11. Karasawa Loyal Player

    So use the information and try different loadouts. Electricity has both dot and burst loadouts now with each being optimal in different situations. That's why it doesn't really mean anything when you ask if dots are comparable to burst; they each have their time and place.

    Trexlight has recorded various combinations of loadouts and stat distributions for comparison, which can be viewed at his YouTube channel:
  12. spord Developer

    The issue with Electroburst missing is because it was checking distance instead of lowest health percentage and should be fixed up soon.
    • Like x 6
  13. spord Developer

    I just wanted to jump in here and say I appreciate all of the constructive discussion about DoTs over the last few days. It has given us some things to think about. Electricity is definitely different in function than other sets, including nature, as the DoTs aren't true DoTs. They are auras, partial burst, or fields. There is a lot of unique flavor and I am trying to keep that intact as much as possible while fitting into the new calculated balance. I do agree (with some of you) that right now it is playing pretty well with way more options than in recent times. Having said that there are going to be some tweaks made pretty soon.
    • Like x 11
  14. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    Did you just miss what i said.......?? I said I have tried different combinations of things, in fact i've tried every possible combination you could use. I know what to use where and the strengths and weaknesses of dots vs burst this isn't my first rodeo.

    And i'm going to say this in the nicest way possible and i mean no disrespect and hopefully don't catch a ban for it but it needs to be said. While i like trex and i value everyones opinions to a point i'm not going to do damage comparisons off of something trex has done. Trex is not a high end player and just doesn't have the knowledge some of us do so when it comes to more important things like balance feedback need to be taken very carefully and from people who are known to be top end players, thorough testers and know how to play powers at the best that power could be played at to truly know all the ins and outs. You also have to know how to think outside the box and do things others might not think of to make sure certain things cannot be exploited.

    I know that sounds rude but im just keeping it real. You can't take feedback from just anyone and expect things to turn out right as we have seen from past updates you need to take feedback from players with the very best knowledge of how things work if you want these kind of updates to be successful. IMO opening up a test build in such a early stage like this to everyone is a very bad decision cause theres just to much room for bad feedback at such a crucial point in the update.

    EDIT: I really want this update to turn out good and for that to happen some things need to change around here. More carefully taken feedback and actually take the feedback don't twist what testers say and we need much much more communication. Some verbal communication with the devs would make this process go so much smoother and faster.
    • Like x 6
  15. Trexlight Loyal Player

    Splendid sir thanks!
  16. ChillCat Loyal Player

    It would seem from Spord's latest reply above combined with this lengthy debate over "DoT vs Burst" that the so-called expertise of the community is decidedly not complete. We're probably best served by putting egos and (clearly wrong) assumptions on the shelf, testing Electricity for what it is, and providing the feedback accordingly.

    tl;dr - quit the squabbling and get back to testing
    • Like x 3
  17. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    As of right now the best way to play is just electrocute as your dot and then just burst powers. If you want to run a true dot setup (what electric is known for and makes it unique to most other powers) that playstyle even falls short at bosses where it should excel and thats due to the setup. I hope we get some good changes coming up cause i'd really like to see the dot playstyle be good again :D

    I do like how we got more burst options to keep electric competitive on adds but myself and many others who don't come to the forums cause of how things go on here would really love to have the option to have that awesome dot playstyle that we all love. Same with nature, players love the dots myself included and think that they work great just the way they are but the one thing we would like is another option so we can also play burst in different situations and I assume that we will be getting that option in the future. What myself and many others are afraid of is the dot side of nature is going to get ruined (sorry couldn't think of another word to be nicer) like electrics was. I really hope the dots are left as is so we don't have to do this back and forth over again.
    • Like x 3
  18. Sage-Rapha Steadfast Player

    That would have been nice to know beforehand lol.
    I'm just glad that this info is now made known.
    Can we have a list of these abilities? It would make it so much easier in doing apples to apples comparisons

    Edit: I know that Electrogenesis is an Aura.
    Electrocute is a Field
    Electrostatic Bomb is a fractured burst

    But what about the other dots?
    • Like x 1
  19. hotsizz1e03 Committed Player

    No disrespect to TREX, but ive seen those videos, they werent how i TESTED electric.. Trex is more so following the TESTING guidelines and if ELECTRIC has any issues.. Trex is more of a SKILLED rage player, which is why i dont blame him too much, but he is also entitled to his opinion. But i have a deep understanding of how ELECTRIC works bcuz its my MAIN power. SO, when i test, im testing the differences, from LIVE, from other powers and the flow of gameplay.. Posting total damages, doesnt really say much when its regardin DAMAGE over TIME.. Now, if u were to make a COMPARISON VIDEO, of burst powers across the board, or even ELECTRIC BURST vs DOTs, then you will realize BALANCE from ALL POWERS. If one power can finish a mission in 10 mins, and another power can finish a mission in 18-20 mins(assuming same gear and stats), does that mean the powers are balanced?


    • 1. How fast does it take a BURST LOADOUT(ELECTRIC BURST OR ANY OTHER POWER) to kill a group of ads/bosses vs DOT LOADOUT. Using multiple sample sizes. DID U TEST LIKE THAT?
    • 2. How much difference does 100 might make in terms of DOTS vs 200.. DID U TEST LIKE THAT? Using multiple sample sizes
    • 3. How much increase of damage does DOTS get after PI... DID U TEST LIKE THAT? Using multiple sample sizes.
    • 4. How consistent is the loadout rotation, in terms of COOLDOWNS and recast(NOT REFRESH smh).. DID U TEST LIKE THAT?
    Now i know we can all test these powers differently, which is why we all have different outlook on ELECTRIC is played. But, There has to be a COMPARE and CONTRASTING when it comes to DOTS, thats how we will know if it will COMPETE.. While I agree with MOST, ELECTRIC has become wayyyyyy more Flexible, and i like the NEW DIRECTION(for the most part lol) i do still think the DOTS and HEALS is what still needs to be addressed..

    Look when im testing, im testing EVERYTHING.. Just bcuz a power can complete a mission and i upload a video to youtube doesnt mean its automatically ASSUMED, its competitive or playable even if it DOESNT have any issues...
    • Like x 6
  20. Karasawa Loyal Player

    Through the use of math, the information I previously provided, and the miracle of hypotheticals you can figure some of these questions out.

    Let's say you're PftT, have 10,000 Might, and you're fighting a group of 8 NPCs who, through sheer convenience, have 100,000 combined health and you don't crit for some reason.

    If you went for more bursty damage and used Arc Lightning (3s CD) twice and Tesla Ball (6s) once, you would do [(3600 x 8) x 2] + [1.1 x (7000 x 8)] = 119,200 damage in about 6-7 seconds and everything would be dead.

    If you went for more dots and used Electrogenesis once, Arc Lightning twice, and Electrocute once you would do (8400 x 2.5) + [(3600 x 8) x 2] + [1.1 x (12,100 x 2)] = 105,220 damage in about 12-13 seconds and only 81,300 damage at about the 6-7 second mark.

    So in this example, its clearly better to go for more burst and avoid your dots simply because the NPCs have low health. This makes Arc Lighting and Tesla Ball the best choices since they do not split damage.

    In comparison, Mental using Terror Tendrils (0.5s) three times would do [(5500 x 8) x 3] = 132,000 damage in only 1.5 seconds. However, this says more about how broken Terror Tendrils is rather than any indication that Electricity is falling behind Mental. It also illustrates the problem with having abilities that do not split damage because it makes them one-hit wonders in these situations. Since there's no point in using anything else you may as well spam the same button over and over again. This is why abilities that are so strong as to become one-hit wonders do *not* provide variety and, in fact, reduce our options significantly.

    Now let's say we're fighting a boss and it also has 100,000 total health.

    If you tried to go a bit more bursty and used Arc Lighting twice, Tesla Ball thrice, Tesla Blast ten times, and then finished off with Ionic Drain you would do (3600 x 2) + {1.1 x [(7000 x 3) + (5100 x 10) + 13,900]} = 101,690 damage in about 20 seconds and the boss would be dead.

    If you went with more dots and used Electrogenesis once, Arc Lightning once, Electrocute once, Voltaic Bolt once, Tesla Blast nine times, and then finished off with Ionic Drain you would do 8400 + 3600 + {1.1 x [12,100 + 9100 + (5100 x 9) + 6950]} + 6950 = 100,405 damage in about 14 seconds. That's a 6 second difference in kill time, which is pretty huge.

    You could go on all day like this with different hypotheticals and trying to figure out the optimum rotation in any given situation. But the point is, testing and observation can tell you a lot and it's something we can all see for ourselves without having to rely on hearsay, guestimates, or someone's feelings on the matter.
    • Like x 5
  21. Karasawa Loyal Player

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