Stats Revamp 1.2 - Atomic, Gadgets, Sorcery!

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Mepps, Jan 13, 2017.

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  1. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    The public test server has now been updated with the next three powers ready for testing in the stats revamp! Atomic, Gadgets, and Sorcery are now available, and all players will start at level 30. This round of testing is still aimed at gathering feedback on powers from players in end-game content (Amazon Fury Part III) and raids.

    We have released these next three powers NOT because we are finished with the Stats Revamp's adjustments or done considering feedback, but because we want more from the perspective of more powersets. On that note, we would like to give you an overall update on how the revamp is progressing.

    State of the Stats!

    The Stats Revamp has many parts, and we're going to divide them into two groups so you know where our thinking is at as of now. The first group is for things that we are generally happy with, are moving along as expected, and will likely require some moderate amount of additional work and feedback. The second group is for things that are still under review, where we expect much more feedback, consideration, and work before we're through.

    On Track:
    • Remove Combat Rating Differential - check!
    • Adjust where player stats come from and smooth progression - check!
    • Adjust NPC stats - check!
    • Revamp skill tress/skill points - check!
    • Remove Advanced Mechanics and Weapon Mastery bonus damage - check!
    • Remove Power Points - check!
    • Adjust specific content as needed - ongoing, but on track!
    • Powerset balance adjustments post-AM/WM - ongoing, but on track!
    Under Review:
    • Supercharges
    • Power over time changes (passive controller PoT)
    • Weapon and passive power regen
    • Ability cooldown adjustments
    • Ability power cost adjustments
    • Role-specific adjustments (related to changes above)
    To learn more about the changes to Atomic, Gadgets, and Sorcery, please see the linked powerset threads below.

    1. Download and log into the test server
    2. Once logged in, you can continue to play existing or create new characters. Please focus on the newly released powers, Atomic, Gadgets, and Sorcery.
    3. Visit the test vendors in your HQ to equip yourself properly.
    4. Play end-game content, with a focus on Amazon Fury Part III (all of it) and other raids.
    5. Return to the Testing Feedback forum, and share your experiences directly in the appropriate thread below. What is your experience at high level? Is it the same or different than your prior testing?
      1. It will help us IMMENSELY if you can also post your test server character name, power, and level/CR with your feedback.
      2. For feedback specific on the power sets, please use these new or existing power threads:
      3. For feedback on content, please continue to use these existing content threads:
      4. For non-testers or general comments, please reply to this work-in-progress thread you are reading now.
    It is imperative that these testing feedback threads remain only for feedback from testers. Off topic comments from those not testing will be removed. General questions or comments from non-testers about the overall revamp should stay in this thread, and feedback should be posted in the appropriate thread above.
    • Like x 1
  2. Aaron7K Active Player

    Okay I will give feedback when I am through!
  3. ChillCat Loyal Player

  4. Black Jaq Devoted Player

    After seeing the changes to Sorcery healing, I have a comment. Most players assumed that Stats Matter was primarily centered around damage abilities, which it seems to be. And I get what TPTB are trying to do with the Controller role. However in the case of Electricity, we sas one ability made innefectual for healing. With Sorcery, one ability was removed and another lost its healing component. While opening up the door for less cookie cutter DPS loadouts, Healers are being left with less options and functionality for healing.
    • Like x 4
  5. XFuriouSGamming New Player

    Why is healing being nerfed? I mean, my 100cr on live server toon heals more than the 174cr on test server, how can this be possible?
    And I think instant-mana powers should have less cooldown, cause it seems to be that trolls will no longer be focused on giving power and I don't like it at all.
    And, about Stats revamp, does this mean we will struggle to do pve contents with +50cr differential? Cause I entered PBG and it's been really hard as solo gadgets dps, and as electric or mental (the powers which I tested) it's been impossible.
    Does this mean we won't be able to solo things like the nexus, or paradox wave, as cr 170+? I've gone to the nexus as well, and I can only kill the first boss, and thats using the sparring target of gadgets, I'm pretty sure powers like elec or mental won't be able to do it.
  6. Sage-Rapha Steadfast Player

    I'll be honest, I want formulas for healing, base damage, and power (vit and power cost).
    This is the only way we will really give accurate feedback.
  7. Sage-Rapha Steadfast Player

    I would really suggest some discussion on the following:

    Self buffs:
    Look you may be able to clip them but it's not worth keeping the cooldown 12 seconds with a 6 second duration.
    If you can make them last throughout the whole cooldown and reduce the buff to 25% precision buff, it would really help out. Right now it's just clunky feeling and makes very little sense to have such sharp spikes in weapon damage, instead of a free-flowing constant stream.

    PI Damage:
    Why is this core part of the game being so minimalized?
    I do not understand why it was reduced to 10% damage bonus.

    Combat Meta:
    The current way things are set up, the optimal set up is this:
    AoE power applicator, Single Target Power Applicator, AoE power that benefits from PI, Supercharge, Weapon Buff, Supercharge builder.

    Play from the tray is not feasible to do very good damage with every power on test excluding Atomic since its a combo power and even still that's a rough experience.
    I can share the top damage tray Loadouts for each power in the next post and it won't compare to any weapon clipping.

    Exorbitant Power Cost Scaling via "gear weight"does not add flavor to the combat. It's not necessarily base power costs doing us in, it's the weighted percentage of every piece of gear. I do not like it. I would rather the tier of the player be responsible for the power cost scaling. NOT GEAR OR CR WEIGHTING.

    Cooldowns on power dumps for controllers, severely limit the amount of power controllers are able to deliver.
    Shielding Supercharges and Battle drone are not good now at all. Please revert battle drone to previous function.

    Shields are way too weak to even dare coordinate with teammates. How does it go to a 6 second duration and 100% dom and 100% resto with a damage cap of 7528 on average for healers?
    Controllers are even worse! And Tanks are bad too!
    please increase the duration of shielding with a much higher damage cap.

    Please let Atomic's self healing be affected by healing crits.

    Battle Roles:

    I understand you are encouraging hybrid play, which I was an enthusiast of, but it's cutting way too deep into the primary functionality of roles and that is survival. Damage should always be the secondary thing and it does not feel that is secondary at all. It feels like the focus and it needs to change.
    • Like x 7
  8. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    Devs are turning the game upside down.
    This whole process of re purposing powers and changing animations is cancerous. I think when and IF all of this hits Live Server, specifically Gadget and Ice players will be most shocked and depressed. Powers that used to utilize PIs now apply them, powers that used to apply PI now utilize them. The stupid new animations like those of EMP and Impaling Ice, the cooldown of Thermochemical Explosion, the removal of Shard of Life. PIs lasting 6 sec and barely giving any real increase...

    Its a real disaster.
    • Like x 9
  9. Harlequin Devoted Player

    And my favorite part: To play from the tray, it has proven to be far more effective in my testing with Ice to forget about placing more than one point in Might, max out Crits and pump everything you can into Power. What could have been what people wanted AMs to evolve into (opening up which powers we could use while maintaining similar results) has been twisted into being starved for power while doing subpar damage compared to simple weapon clips.

    So. Much. Fun.
    • Like x 3
  10. Mdkirk95 New Player

    As a long time MMO player, I had always been drawn in by fleshed out & rotation/skill based dps classes. As a new player (haven't even logged over an hour of gameplay) I tend to read up on a game's official forums specifically within the development sections to see what changes & new additions are currently being added to a game. My main interest was the sorcerer, as I had seen awesome raid gameplay videos featuring ranged & melee setups along with people fulfilling the role of both healer & pure dps for the class. While awaiting my game download via steam I started to watch more build videos & recommendations for creating a sorcerer, only to find alot of the incredible bread & butter skills and abillities had (or would be) horribly nerfed to a point in where I'm not even sure I want to create a sorcerer (like I had originally intended) as my starter character. Though I wish some of these comment sections would be a tad bit kinder in regards to giving the developers feedback, as they are working hard to make the game more enjoyable for the playerbase (at-least I'd hope or assume), but it's really off putting to see that nerfs are being put in place without really any form of response (the sorcery test thread has no updated responses, so most of your long time players only grow more confused & angered as time passes, responses would be nice). Whatever the case, here's hoping for positive changes & the developers taking in the feedback of the players, the community & it's development staff seem awesome from past forum posts!
    • Like x 3
  11. Sir-Ivy Dedicated Player

    Reducing the CD on power heals just turns it into a spam fest for the DPS. Why not allow PoT stacking and more elaborate ways of double ticking or tie it to the SC meter. Anything that doesn't result in tap-empowerment-tap-empowerment into infinity or the instance is done, sounds better.
    • Like x 1
  12. Sage-Rapha Steadfast Player

    It's currently impossible for that to happen. Instant Power heals are now dependent on a player's power stat rather than how potent a controller's vit and power stats are.
    I do agree with letting pot stack. That's gonna be needed.
    • Like x 1
  13. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    At this point in time, unless you let up on a lot of the power gameplay mechanics, this won't end well for the game.

    It shows that you are trying to simplify balance, only it doesn't seem to be possible. Atomic looks like it is way more effective than ice. Sorcery has better healing options than electric. Mental is themed better than gadgets.

    I'm kind of tired out by these changes. I love the power back changes. I love the open power and stat trees. I pretty much hate most everything else.

    Please don't give the "but stats matter" with the sarcastic tone. Having to dump all your points into power means I still can't benefit from my stats I wanted to use.

    In the end of it all. The learning curve is just bad. I am pretty sure what we were sold and what we are getting are not the same.

    I know you spent a long time on this but there is just too much at stake to chance players leaving.
    • Like x 13
  14. Kevinfar New Player

    I found a bug with the supply vendor. You have to get several boxes to get all the amenities. And since you can't delete all the duplicates you get, you have to put them into your personal bank. It seems that you would get all the amenities in one box.
  15. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    After having the weekend to fully think about it, I think there is too many changes that will be far too debilitating to the average player. The whole idea of stats matter was great! I love the idea of no power trees to purchase. I love the choose your stat, not having to spend 20 to get to 3 at the bottom. Removing the CR Differential is very good.

    The idea of forcing a change for "our own good" is what I don't like. We've literally been down this road before quite a few times. GU47 being the most recent and probably the most hated change from casual to hardcore alike. This is shaping up to being the same thing for all different reasons.

    I'll give you the points that just hurt the update.

    • Power changes. You set a specific standard that needed to be met with the change and are systematically changing all powersets to go into it. The problem with this, some can meet it easier than others. So Mental can fall in line, but Electric gets an overhaul. This changes unique power sets. It starts to play the same, which I think most players would agree, not necessary and is off putting.
    • Cooldowns and Power Consumption. This is playing double duty. Other Double Punishment as I put it. You end up having to wait for cooldowns plus deal with massive consumptions. It starts to look like you are trying to push a different play style than necessary. In theory, you only need one, not both.
    • Power return and play from tray option. This is something that I really hate about this update. For about 3 years, we had options to play from the tray that allowed us to feel like a "metahuman". Then pulling the rug from out under us to revert back to before, where you had to use your weapon isn't a going forward idea. It's going back. Whether it be, "we effed up, so we are reverting changes" or "it's too much damage and roles are getting excluded" it definitely a negative position and will probably be the number one thing all players will be put off by on live. You can't take away something that people get used to. When AMs were introduced, it was a slower process, this is completely opposite of that. It's GU16/17 all over again. With those gosh darn match NPCs. Which half my old league just up and stopped playing because of it. (They started coming back when you could start breaking out of the stupid cheating counters.)
    • Content designed vs content to be designed. This will be a problem. Players are very much used to being able to smash their way through content. Taking damage away isn't inherently bad, as you can't actually have mechanics if they were ignored, but with the design of current content. You will have OC level problems without the main reason why OC needed to be nerfed in the first place. I remember when HoP1 came out and bosses from it and AF1 were nerfed in health because of how long battles were. This was during WM first started and even with the damage of that, it still wasn't enough. Of course, that nerf and the increasing AM damage was hindering. And simply nerfing damage and health across the board doesn't work, because you end up with content that is lacking. Of course, just nerfing it and just moving forward is a way to go, but between T5~T8, especially T7, will be a skip. T1-T4 will be fine, as it just goes back to how it was preGU47.
    At the end of the day, I think this change is too restrictive and will cause problems and push players away, not bring them back. The promise of what we were told is different than what we are being handed. And the "for your own good" mentality hurts everyone more than what we actually need.
    • Like x 11
  16. Karasawa Loyal Player

    I consider myself more tolerant than most, but I have to say that playing on the test server has been surprisingly stressful. Before I honestly felt like I knew all the powersets very well. Now I know nothing. And nothing makes sense unless I go lay down and spend some time to really, really think about it, lol.

    Who knew a game could have this kind of effect on me? But I guess anything you've known for years and years being changed on you suddenly will be stressful.

    As of right now, I like the revamping of power points (I don't have to respec to play around with my loadout) and I like the reorganization of SP. I like the removal of CR differential because that was the biggest hindrance to having SKILLS matter. I like the removal of AM damage because 4x damage over every other option was stupid.

    I think I like where you're going with Controllers if it means we don't rely on them so much for power. I would definitely like it if everyone was just responsible for their own goddang power, but so far I'm not confident that you've found the answer to "what should Controllers do instead?" In which case, just keep Controllers the same and give them better options to blue bar heal please.

    I think I like where you're going with Tanks if it means they don't need to spend so much time blocking (and thus not actively engaged in interrupting and blockbreaking), but atm they're too weak in raids.

    I don't like the power costs yet. It feels okay if I put a lot of SP and Mods into Power, but I don't necessarily know how I'll do that on my low SP characters. And I don't like how the game feels if I have nothing invested in Power because I can't use my abilities as much as I'm used to.

    I don't like how these abilities I've known so well for years and years like Fear Gas and Voltaic Bolt and Weapon of Destiny and Shard of Life are now completely different abilities that just happen to have the same name. Or gone! I fell in love with the little details of these abilities and now they have entirely different little details.

    I appreciate that there's a logic and order to the way you're creating these new abilities, and maybe it'll work really well and be fun. But right now it's really hard for me to get over the fact that those years of knowing an ability so well are gone. And that's what is so stressful atm.

    Rant over, carry on.
    • Like x 7
  17. Elusian Loyal Player

    From a general perspective the Stats Revamp makes progress. It's undeniable that some encounters have way too much health but differences in content and why it is what it is has BumblingB hit with a nail. I'm certain adjustments will be made for content in a seperate focused update.

    My Elec post felt ranty (sorry :() though I'm positive about whats going on on test.
    • Like x 3
  18. Zephyren New Player

    I have to install it again ? Once i start the launch pad it began to install
  19. Cardinalist Well-Known Player

    Most people are not going to be okay with a focused update. Nature and electric waited 2 years for a hot fix that never came. They need to get this right now. Nothing about what we have tested so far has been right. It's all centering around those bloody time capsule tac mods
  20. EconoKnight Loyal Player

    Has anyone tried the cap mods to see if they make any real difference? Looking at the numbers, I don't see where they will have great effect.

    I see the dev intent just like you do, but the gimmick doesn't fix anything in a real way.
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