Stat Clamp Is Dogwater And An Failure

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by DrakeBall, Nov 17, 2021.

  1. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    One can argue 2 points on this.
    1. That can be said pretty much with new content or any content. The revolving door, players that don't know how to skate, etc. So how is the clamp the problem?
    2. If the ice rink is so broken, hasn't been smoothed out, needs repair, it should be reported. A lot of the problem with threads like this one is they don't give specifics and often times when you do find out, it was just one experience and lumped it altogether. (Or just haven't even tried it yet.)
    There is a significant number of players who hate the clamp and their only argument that is valid, is that they feel weaker. The devs have been addressing that. Heck, the most recent patch boosted upscaled players by a LOT and gave downscaled players a bigger buff if they were with an upscaled player. It's dang near close to being unclamped.

    I mean no disrespect from this comment, but this post just sounds like you want the fast and done with it. Which defeats the purpose of WHY they created the clamp. Players that want it all NOW and never touch it again. Which, the whole EEG Clamp/Omnibus was created for was to allow for new players to have people to play with and give old players extra rewards.

    Yep. I agree with you wholeheartedly here. Is that fun? Heck no. Going into a single instanced ad nauseam sounds just as enjoyable as when I was having my teeth pulled. I'd rather just do the fun route with friends. That includes the clamp or new content. All are good. (That also puts me at odds with StU, because, I really do enjoy listening to the worst Harley voice make the same Bobby Pin joke over and over again. :confused: )
    • Like x 2
  2. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Ah...another fan of AQS. Welcome aboard! That new player should not be in a run with someone who can 1 shot everything...clamped or not. New players should be playing with new players and learn we did when we were all 'new' players.

    They should also not be pushed up in stats to rush to higher content. If they had to run content on their way up in some form of progression, they'd have a better chance to learn by doing vs having it spoon fed to them by a few OP players who are now forced to teach them, or just ignore them as they die from easy mechanics.
    • Like x 2
  3. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Base items, collections, briefs/investigations...or sometimes to help carry a friend through a run where THEY need something that cant' be done in a random group of knuckleheads.
    • Like x 2
  4. KoscheiDeath Well-Known Player

    I recognize very well that this is an MMO and that's why I wanted an optional feature. Everyone would get what they want and be happy.

    Most people who are asking for an unclamped version are not really asking for it for replay-ability purposes though. We've spent how many years with people acquiring our feats in unclamped content? It wasn't an issue then, so why would it be one now? I feel it's a little hypocritical to say that this would strip away the accomplishment aspect of feats when we both know that the vast majority of people who have acquired those feats, did so when they could face stomp content. I think the majority (if not all) of the complaints about the stat clamp, including mine, come from the lack of optionality. I don't see how much more resources or man power would be needed for this to be put in the game when it already is to some degree (relevant episodes). This whole thing was done with the sole purpose of alluring new players to the game and the membership and increase revenue, I'm not against the idea but I'm just not too happy with the forced nature of it.

    No worries about the confusion, we're good buddy.
    • Like x 1
  5. Catastroflare Well-Known Player

    It's been a while since I last played FFXIV but at one point in the game, Square Enix (SE) was dealing with something similar. After they completely rebooted the game, they found themselves in the usual place for an MMO in trying to bridge the gaming experience gap between brand new players and seasoned ones when it came to intro/older content that needed to be complete for story/character progression.
    FFXIV went in a totally different philosophical direction than FFXI (think traditional group-oriented success (Asian way) over solo play(western)) where you could take your new character pretty far following the storyline without necessarily requiring aid of a pick up group or a league/clan/guild to do so. There was still multi-player content related to the story, mainly boss fights, that required grouping up though most seasoned players had zero reason or incentive to do so. To alleviate this, SE introduced the Roulette system (stick) and tied rewards (carrots) to it. Though the omnibus works similarly to the Roulette system, the stick is much bigger than the carrot as the weekly omnibus reward is kinda lame.

    The problem with this isn't really the stat clamp (though as a returning player I am not a fan of it but understand it) it's the lack of two things: incentive and motivation. If the incentive is there, maybe adding a currency that can be exchanged for grains of time, casino tokens, rare/unique styles or items -basically anything that would motivate players to play old content they otherwise would have zero interest in.
    The two things all gamers lament but accept as a part of a games is grinding and RNG. If the DCUO devs come up with some type of reward system for older content that's flexible and a good ROI for their time spent palying, I think many of the comments in this thread would not have even been posted.

    So if the EEG has to be stat clamped, fine. It is what it is, but as along as the incentive to run it by seasoned players is there, it won't matter. And besides, no players want to spend their time carrying a bunch of new players* through content knowing most of them will stop playing after a few weeks or a few months anyway, right?


    -The other issue is what exactly is a "new player" (a new alt started by a player familiar with the game or a brand new player playing DCUO for the first time; these are not mutually exclusive) and are we thinking the same in this regard? My guess is no.
    • Like x 1
  6. KoscheiDeath Well-Known Player

    This is why I love games that have "New player" servers or "phases" and regular ones. Once you've gone through everything in the new player "phase" you get switched into the regular one.
    • Like x 1
  7. the solowing Steadfast Player

    They are pushed up so they can catch up to everyone at endgame in a reasonable time. Nobody in any game of content wants to have to go through 10 years worth of stuff to get to endgame.
    • Like x 2
  8. KoscheiDeath Well-Known Player

    One of the original complaints about this game was that you couldn't go back into older instances and receive rewards for it once you were past a certain level (CR). In theory, the stat clamp was the fix to this problem but Source Marks are not really a "reward" to a lot of the more experienced players.

    Like you said, a lot of people still don't feel incentivized enough to go into Omnibus. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that a lot of these Omnibus "runs" are just plain awful because of a multitude of problems this game is plagued with, encountered in random pug groups (lack of communication, lack of skill, not understanding or refusing to understand mechanics, toxicity, etc.).

    As a more experienced player myself, I personally really don't feel like spending an hour and a half in Clocktower or DWF with a pug group, that refuses to listen to my polite advice, only to receive a few Source Marks. This whole thing should've came with a more substantial reward system for the more experienced players, maybe even a shepherd system where your rewards could be increase with the amount of time you put into helping others in Omnibus.
    • Like x 4
  9. KoscheiDeath Well-Known Player

    The problem with this is that those players are not learning anything from this system, it's exacerbated by the fact that this game has zero tutorials. This problem is easily diagnosed by going into any Omnibus run and looking at all the CR skip characters and low levels.
    • Like x 1
  10. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    I don't know that I've been in any 'current' non-elite content where the on duty screen is off the screen. You might see 1, maybe 2 people boogie after a nasty wipe, but not 5 or 10. This can be said of the pre-clamp older content too, it didn't happen there. The clamped content yes...I don't know that I've gotten out of one Raid I'd omni'd into where the roster has less than 10 names by the end.
    On the broken ice rink, it was only broken from the aspect of matchmaking. Put together groups were fine, but matchmaking forced the OP and newbies together. That's still happening, but now instead of a few frustrated newbies being 'left behind' (which by the way...was not an issue for every newbie...many liked and appreciated a carry), you now have saddled those OP players with a run that takes 2-10x as long as it need take and a 'nanny' position having to explain simple mechanics and basic gameplay.

    I'll agree on the fact that this is the argument from many, but not me. I don't really care that i'm weaker, I have an issue with the fact that in general most groups are not good and the fact that I'm weaker just means I can't compensate for that. The only solution to this is to build groups...which was the whole issue before the clamp, and again points to the matchmaking system as the issue. I'll also agree that it is a work in progress and they have made improvements from day one...however, you are still dependent on 7 other people showing up who can do the job (raids obviously....alerts only 3).

    No disrespect taken, and yes, I want to have it done fast, however that is a relative term. 'Fast' might be 20-30 min for a run, and that's fine. 'Fast' means not having to wait for the group to refill from quitters/squatters, or repeat mechanics 5 times, explain roles, etc... I'm not even against wiping a few times, which can happen in the best of groups. So yeah...I want it done 'fast'.

    And if there were not 7 other people to play with already, maybe the demand for the clamp was not that great? From the sounds of it there is this giant mass of people who required the clamp...I'd think there would be enough to fill groups without involving those of us who'd still like to plow through....but that's not the option we it? Our only options are to avoid it entirely (which helps neither group) or build 8 man groups...which doesn't help those new players either (more than likely).

    Don't forget the much-room joke...gets funnier every time.

    And no...I hate spamming anything...easy or hard...instance or OW. Unfortunately STU is spam heavy. And yes, I've solved a lot of my dislike for the clamp/omni by using built groups of friends vs random. However, does that help the new players?
    • Like x 1
  11. Catastroflare Well-Known Player

    This to me is the bigger issue.

    The devs are trying to use the omnibus as a way for seasoned players to "guide and teach" new players through content, regardless of it being old/outdated or new. They are relying on the player base to hopefully tutor the newer players and we know this is the dumbest, most lazy way to do it.

    Aside from typical toxicity found pretty much everywhere in every game, there is just so much content, both old and new, without any type of walkthrough (official or not) that no one has the time or desire to waste on players who are exactly like you mentioned above. If anything, the seasoned players who play DCUO are being penalized for playing the game regularly with the burden of "teaching" new players the ins and outs of the game. Again, this is pure laziness on the part of the devs, but if this is the way it must be, fine, then make it worth our time and reward the effort and hard work in teaching (at times) the unteachable and wasting precious time that could be invested elsewhere in the game.
    • Like x 3
  12. Tiffany6223 Committed Player

    Is this boosting of the upscaled players the reason why my CR 313 league mate was able to out perform me in Throne? I didn’t appreciate the taunts and jeers from the others that I received because they knew my specs going in to the raid were higher than hers. I didn’t even realize it had happened until I was laughed at so I checked the leader board for myself.
  13. KoscheiDeath Well-Known Player

    This, if your plan is to have the more seasoned players teach and guide the new ones, give them extra compensation for doing it. I'm fine with the idea but in the context of this game, I feel like it's a recipe for disaster.
    • Like x 1
  14. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    So... what would you say if I told you the Omnibus rewards weren't really the "carrot" part and the source marks and the ability to queue older content was?

    A lot of players were very much in the camp of "x content" doesn't pop or "if you didn't get x feat" when it launched, you were SOL. So for the "carrot", they created the Omnibus and clamping all EEG content.

    I've been playing this game since Free 2 Play in early Nov 2011. The whole reasoning of the clamp is actually a very positive one. New players have the ability to play content that was pretty much made obsolete after the next DLC came out. (Hyperbole, more like 2-3 dlcs.) This actually is a HUGE alternative to their buy $50 character boost and get dropped in to several dlcs below the new one. (That, at the time before the clamp was JLD, which is OH BOY the worst spot to drop a new player in to. lol)

    For an old player, that is coming back, like me, I can go into the older content and try for rewards that I missed. (Collections, styles, feats, etc.)

    It's a win win.

    I don't think the system that you described (several of my real world friends play FF14.) would actually work, considering, that... and hear me out, is pretty much close to what Save the Universe is. Old content boosted up with new rewards attached to them. And we all know that running older content again can be painful, especially ones that we had to run a lot when it was new. (The Monthly content as an example, were the worst choice for STU, IMO.)

    So what is the problem with clamped content? The biggest issue is time, apparently, because if it was the whole "I don't feel super anymore" is a stretch and proof they haven't played any clamped content or hit that one "worst case scenario" of all the wrong things happening. Which can happen if it was unclamped.

    The true tragedy is the EEG Elite content. Come to find out that the whole selling of "piercing" was also a fallacy just gives a new perspective.
    • Like x 3
  15. KoscheiDeath Well-Known Player

    Didn't they just boost the CR difference when clamped by like 5? How is that A LOT ? Am I missing something?
    • Like x 1
  16. shoegazer Well-Known Player

    See..I think what you mention here about old content and feats in unclamped content is the real answer to whether or not the majority of the player base wanted these changes

    If it's optional we all know what option more of the player base will play more often
  17. KoscheiDeath Well-Known Player

    Let's be real here though, the stat clamp was never about anything else but the idea of increasing new membership revenue from new players.
    • Like x 2
  18. Catastroflare Well-Known Player

    Then I would simply say it's not enough carrot. And for me, perhaps I am in a small minority in that aspect but the issue is the devs are trying to use the omnius to plug holes they need to be creative in fixing themselves. It really doesn't take much; just if it's feasible from a programming standpoint or not.

    I'd also say it's not just time, but the return on investment for that time is. Like you mentioned, if you missed out on a feat or something, that's ok because you were rewarded with X,Y,Z to make up for it and tomorrow you'll give it another shot. And if the odds are already not in your favor because PUGs, well, tend to be PUGs, that just puts the feat (or whatever it is you're trying to accomplish) further out of reach. The clamp won't help with that anyway -it just gives the opportunity but it's like chasing the fake rabbit in a greyhound race.
  19. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    Again, how is that the clamp's fault? That sounds more like a systemic problem and was in the game from the beginning. I remember back when T4 was still new, that players would still struggle with Smallville, Area 51, or even Bloodhaven, which was a sub 30 alert.

    I think a lot of the players that in your camp feel like they've been forced to teach, but I argue that has always been the case. Just now, we realized it because we no longer can solo an 8 man instance.

    This really is not a general problem, but a systemic one on how the game teaches the players. Right now, they are working towards adjusting the game to live another 10+ years. They fixed one problem, I'm sure others will be resolved and hopefully more teaching will be done in early stages of a player's development.

    Well, for one to work, you kind of needed both to be part of it.

    I suppose it doesn't, but it did help you find friends. <3 ;)

    Were you in a clamped instance? Throne of the Dead event was not 313 and both of you would be clamped down and the piercing and play style/skill level would make the difference.

    What I'm talking about is in clamped content. Players scaled up get a buff. A very BIG buff, even. I think they also buffed scaled down players if there are at least 2 scaled up players. Something like that.
  20. Plowed In Dedicated Player

    The path of least resistance…it’s no secret. :)