Stat Clamp Choice

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by qECLIPSEp, Dec 23, 2021.

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  1. Catastroflare Well-Known Player

    Ok let me spell this out for you in a way that might help you grasp what I'm saying

    1) you have an opinion
    2) it's based solely on nothing but your speculation
    3) ???
    4) profit!

    You're wrong.

    So you repeatedly said that people in favor of removing the clamp is to one-shot everything and still get loot. I said no. Others have said no yet you still keep pushing this opinion.

    Again, you're wrong.
    • Like x 3
  2. the solowing Steadfast Player

    My reply...
    [IMG]
    • Like x 2
  3. Ryazan Dedicated Player

    Yea, so that means that it wasn't them. They don't want the gear/marks to be a reward in the unclamped version

    It may be in a bit of broken English, but they said:

    "loot will revert to the way it use"

    ___________________

    My question was about who was asking for loot to remain the same in an unclamped version, that person is still not found.
    • Like x 4
  4. ItsSeven Level 30

    Wrong. Even in the months leading to HoL, there were very few groups running either of those raids. They’re dead with or without clamps.

    As to your argument about leagues, for one, that’s a very specific example that is likely a small minority in the game. Secondly, you and I both know that not everyone is going to like the change the devs make. Using your own logic what do you say to the people who want a challenge or want to run clamped for the extra rewards but can’t because they can’t get a group together or a queue to pop. As we know, the overwhelming majority of people will do what’s easier, which is unclamped content leaving the rest of the players SOL.I don’t understand what satisfaction one gets for one shotting a lower level boss just to say that the hard work on their toon led up to those type of moments. It seems ridiculous, but maybe that’s just me.

    I mean there’s tons of bad players on the forums and in game, I’m sure there’s people who want it for that reason. They are well within their right to feel that way, but feats in raids are meant to be challenging or at the very least thought provoking. If your group is good enough to get it then you’ll get it, if not, then oh well, or you took advantage of when they announced the stat clamp that you did it prior to that. And I assume you meant older elite content continues to be challenging even while unclamped, that’s only true from BoP until now from everything I’ve ran, only a couple of outliers here and there. Now a more likely compromise would be to adjust the difficulty or allow some more stat bleed through.

    Also address the devs’ goal with stat clamp, if you can explain how it would help them get more player retention in the lower levels by adding an option because as history shows us, unclamped content hasn’t worked for the point you’re making since nobody ran low level content when we weren’t stat clamped. I could open up to it more if that argument is made. We just aren’t going to see eye to eye with current arguments we’re making.
    • Like x 2
  5. Yass Queen Hyppolyta Dedicated Player

    Wrong.

    People would form groups and run ZOOE, PANE and DME in one go. That is no more.

    They were definitely not dead at all-- I usually ran those on like four different toons each week to farm and groups filled quick and were never, ever hard to fill. In fact, it was easy to get shut out because demand was so high. You can disagree without just making stuff up.

    And save this "bad players" elitist nonsense for yourself. It's not cute and it's not appropriate to this conversation.
    • Like x 5
  6. catplaysxoxo Dedicated Player

    Okay it just got confusing. “They don’t want gear/marks to be rewarded in unclamped content” that’s crazy talk. Reverting to that was already a mistake because players weren’t running them. Before stats clamp went live and it hasn’t been a full year since it went live, players still weren’t running older content. To have them not get gear or marks just adds to the effect that the dev team took the best logical approach. You still got gear and marks in older content before stats clamp but it wasn’t always there. The OP and others are now just talking about completing feats easier which is what they believe was the case when they weren’t stat clamp.
  7. the solowing Steadfast Player

    If the game was doing fine without the stat clamp, then why was it added in?;)

    If it aint broke dont fix it right?
    • Like x 1
  8. ItsSeven Level 30

    No I will not. Whether you want to think of it as elitist or not is your own problem. You can’t tell me that you don’t believe that there are people who want it solely to accomplish their feats because they wouldn’t be able to otherwise. Is it the only reason? Of course not. But is it a reason? Very much so. You don’t even have to be an elite player to get the feats, some trial and error, common sense, and communication is required for them. Those are qualities of an MMO.

    Maybe in your experience, but mine was different. I’d actively look to run those raids, especially DMe. I couldn’t find them a lot of the time so I would ask my league. You can make your point without having to project your own experiences onto me.
    • Like x 3
  9. Yass Queen Hyppolyta Dedicated Player

    Who cares?

    Seriously, who cares if someone goes back YEARS after the fact to work on an old feat or two. Trying to gatekeep that stuff is weird and yes, elitist.

    For a decade+ there has been a philosophy that this game is about progression. And part of the fun in that is revisiting older content to see how your gains have paid off. Devs themselves frequently talked about going to old feats after gearing more. And really, going after a multi-year old feat after you've spent time, effort and possibly money on your character is hardly "asking for feats on a silver platter."

    Honestly, your posts seem very dishonest and I don't believe you at all re: DME, PANE and ZOOE unless you're on a server other than USPS. You don't need to lie to make your case.
    • Like x 4
  10. the solowing Steadfast Player

    Not merely a psychology enthusiast, the Armchair Psychologist has a compulsive need to classify people and their behavior according to popular psychological theories, and just as often, their personal definitions. The Armchair Psychologist is fond of evolutionary psychology and psychoanalysis which allows them to not only categorize others but pigeonhole them. The Armchair Psychologist sees themselves as an advanced freethinker though their theories and analysis are often traditional and restricting.
  11. Catastroflare Well-Known Player

    orz
  12. ItsSeven Level 30

    Funnily enough, I feel the same way about yours. You can make your point without having to lie, but I digress.

    I’m not trying to gatekeep it. They are free to get it right now if they wanted to, nobody is stopping them. And I don’t know why you’re still holding onto that philosophy. If the devs implemented stat clamp, they are diverting away from that and are clearly focusing on other things. You really can’t ask yourself why they’re doing something that contradicts that philosophy? They’ve done nothing at all or do things that go against with what they said they were going to do multiple times like with PvP(New PvP season every year) for example. Things change.

    It’s clear we won’t see eye to eye, so I’ll agree to disagree.
    • Like x 3
  13. Yass Queen Hyppolyta Dedicated Player

    That you have to make up easily disprovable tall tales such as the value of the chase items I mentioned means you're incapable of having an honest conversation.

    Keep lying. Keep gatekeeping. Keep being elitist.
    • Like x 4
  14. Spider Jerusalem Well-Known Player

    The analysis here is solid.

    The success of the clamp depends on whether or not more people are running old raids. Since we don't have the actual numbers (and will likely never get them), we must resort to other metrics to make this determination.

    If more old raids were being run, then the rare drops from those raids would be in greater supply, driving the price down. If less old raid are being run, those prices would rise.

    The prices are rising, folks. This suggests that the clamp may be a failure in terms total raids being run.

    If the pro-clamp zealots have any other objective metrics to suggest that the clamp is leading to MORE play, I'd love to hear them.
    • Like x 4
  15. ItsSeven Level 30

    Now you’re grasping at straws because you can’t come up with anything else. For one, you came up with that conclusion because my experience was different to yours. Secondly as an example, I think TSDe is an easy raid and genuinely think the nerfs were ridiculous, now does that mean you or anyone else will have that same experience and opinion? No, of course not. Doesn’t mean I’m right or wrong or anything else. You’re trying to push your experience as if it’s fact. Thirdly, you chose to ignore everything else and focus on something that wasn’t even the meat of our argument.


    If your feelings are hurt over a simple disagreement, I suggest you get off the forums. Good day.
  16. Yass Queen Hyppolyta Dedicated Player

    It's weird that you think I have "hurt feelings" when I'm simply pointing out that what you're saying is not true and all you need to do is look at the broker to know that you're lying.

    And what the hell does TSDE have to do with anything? I don't disagree but it has nothing to do with this conversation at all.

    Ultimately, you want to take things away from people and I want them to have more choices. I want to invite more people in to play more ways and you want to gatekeep and demean players you look down on. Just different styles I guess.
    • Like x 3
  17. ItsSeven Level 30

    Maybe I didn’t elaborate enough or we misunderstood each other. When I said they were dead, the months leading up to the HoL Stat Clamp “DLC” it was increasingly more difficult for me to find a group for those raids. ZooE and PanE was almost extinct during the hours I played which was pretty late night and I’d get to run DMe if my league was on. Now the value of those items have gone up due to the people not running it, but it’s also harder to sell because people who tend to have that amount of money likely have them already. I think there should be more stuff introduced, I just don’t think the incentive is there is all. Are there less people running it now? Sure, I could agree and yeah, stat clamp could play a part in that even if 2 of the raids are glorified reg raids. Regardless this wasn’t what we were disagreeing about.

    I used TSDe as an example because I interpreted your old raid example as if you were using your experience as fact, TSDe being easy was my example to show that my experience and opinion of that raid are my own thoughts, not that I’m right or wrong. So misunderstanding.

    Lastly, I’m not trying to demean or gatekeep players at all. I just personally don’t think that it should be a brainless encounter to get your feats or rewards. Really they can run it right now if they wanted to. But maybe I expect too much of the community. If anything, running through this stuff how it’s supposed to makes them better. The biggest asset someone could have when actually progressing and making the transition to the endgame is knowledge, whether it be passed down or trial and error especially has how many of the mechanics in old raids end up making it to new ones. The alternative is players being ran through content at light speed where they don’t learn anything which ends up having them have a bad endgame experience. Apologies for the passive aggressive tone. I suggested earlier that the devs look at the difficulty or have more bleed through of your stats as a compromise. But yes, you’re right, different reasonings, neither of which is wrong I think. So like I said, I’ll agree to disagree.
    • Like x 2
  18. Yass Queen Hyppolyta Dedicated Player

    I mean I'm ok, but you originally said those items don't have value anymore and that's just not true. It was hard for me to get past that and I went and double checked the broker to be sure I wasn't imagining things.

    One of the recurring themes of this thread is more choices are always better than fewer. Adding pets to old content was a great idea, we need more of that and less forced clamping. It's interesting to note how devs quickly relented about source marks in endgame content and the CR differential in clamped content. And we know that elite is getting looked at too. All of this says to me that clamping, as conceived, is simply not that popular and comes with many, many problems that didn't previously exist. And judging by what a flop omnibus appears to be, I don't think it really solved any old problems either.
    • Like x 4
  19. Alex Xander New Player

    Less total raids? No, I doubt it. Less old elite raids? Yes, for sure.

    FoS3 and HH replaced DME, PanE, and ZooE as the raids of choice because of the rewards. Source marks are now of value for many players, so those chase items aren’t the exclusive thing in early endgame content as they were pre-clamp.
    • Like x 1
  20. Plowed In Dedicated Player

    This Alex Xander guy makes some fair points… :)

    [IMG]

    Mepps saved the forums! Yay!! :p
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