Speeder EOG Universe

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Emoney, Jan 24, 2023.

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  1. Emoney Dedicated Player

    So, here we are. Its 2023, and we have had many debates on these forums. For the most part, over the past year or so, it's been mostly around the stat clamp subject. Now, I don't want to really get into that, just the justification used for it. Over and over, I've read the supporters of the clamp argue that the devs put in the clamp to preserve the integrity of their work. Meaning, they clamped us so that we can enjoy the content the way it was designed. Ok. But I've tracked down many of these players In game and noticed a few similarities...

    They are all superspeeders.
    They are mostly all precision builds.
    They all use EOG.
    They all tact swap artifacts.

    So, my question is....where is your value of the integrity of the game now?

    We have powersets with 30 powers each. But you use only one or two of them. Didnt the devs create those powersets with the intention of us using them? Instead you pick one power, or maybe just the weapon buff power, then the rest are iconics and superspeed powers and the iconic supercharges unless you are ice or electricity.

    Superspeed....has, in my opinion, exploitable issues that the other travel sets do not. Excessive damage and clippable properties. Shouldn't this game be about all of the travel powers and not just speeders? Youd think this game is a Flash game by the amount of speeders we have now.

    EOG. This has gotten out of hand. We now have healers sacrificing all but two healing powers, for multiple supercharges and EOG just to exploit content by extreme super charge regeneration. How can you support the clamp, AND justify this technique when essentially its unclamping you because the advantage is that great. But, this isnt just healers, we have tanks doing it too, and some trollers, and it's so excessive we all play with completely full supercharge meters, and spamming the supercharge abilities.

    Artifact swapping. This too is out of hand. I dont get how we aren't allowed to switch roles during combat more than once, yet mostly PC people can swap out many artifacts for an excessive advantage. Not only EOG, but many others, and to me, this cant be intended, or shouldn't be.

    When you put all of this together, how is it any different than how the game was pre stat clamp?!? All of this trivializes content, and makes it so we are avoiding 95% of every powerset. Didnt the devs put in a lot of work making these powersets, animations, many balance passes, and we are avoiding it all. To this day, we have so many people requesting new powers for what? To just use a reskinned weapon buff and then run superspeed, iconic and EOG?

    I for one, hate all of these things. I dont use any of it. I'm flight, might, and use all fire powers minus Heat vision, which compliments fire because of burning. I dont even have the EOG artifact at all, and I cant tac swap because it's slow and clunky on console, nor do I think its proper game play to be bringing up my menu 10 times per boss battle. This is a personal choice, but also as I point out, it's about the integrity of the game. I have never been one for gimmicky techniques, and all of this seems that way to me.

    I just wanted to point out the sad status of this game atm, and the sheer hypocrisy that some forum members have. You either believe in the integrity of the game, or you dont. But honestly, I suspect, it's all about having the most advantage over your fellow player it was never the game state.

    I really hope the devs can address these things. Buff Flight, skimming and acrobatics to the same status if all of that is intended.

    Nerf EOG, or at the very least, put some kind of timer on it.

    Treat artifacts the same way they did armories, for the same reasons. Add a forth artifact slot as a compromise, and then lock out swapping in combat.

    I know I'll get hate over this, but it had to be said. As a famous superhero would say....Flame on!!!
    • Like x 19
  2. Proxystar #Perception

    When words aren't necessary.

    • Like x 4
  3. Rainnifer Committed Player

    You opened quite the bag here

    While I agree that the other movement modes should get some love too, I just have to say that you don't have to play that way and there is nothing wrong with people going for what works. This kind of thing happens in anything that offers this amount of variety. There are going to be things that are simply better than others for most situations.

    There are many options you can use and still be "competitive." I come across and play with a larger majority of players using Might over Precision.
    • Like x 1
  4. willflynne 10000 Post Club

    Clamp supporter.

    13 characters, only two are Precision builds. Neither one uses super speed.

    Don't use EOG.

    Don't tact swap.

    Just some food for thought.
    • Like x 14
  5. TH3T1T4N New Player

    +1 to the OP, BUT it's a matter of taste.. Im might as well, use flight and always have and I can't stand prec.. but that's me, the same can be said when it comes to a prec player telling he/she can't stand might..

    As @Rainnifer pointed out, there are many ways you can still be competitive and keep up with those prec players.. ( and somethimes beat them )

    It all comes down to how you want to play the game, doing your role well and getting over an instance with some feats..
    • Like x 3
  6. Proxystar #Perception

    Since we're doing it.

    Clamp Supporter Here.

    Use super speed, also have characters that are flight and skimming, just not acro, cause it's disgusting.

    Have a rank 200 EOG that is barely used and is not imprinted on a single armory, don't use it to spam as a tank, don't even typically tac swap it in, because the boost moves with the player not the green circle (trick for new players).

    Casually tac swap and do so using a controller, not a keyboard/mouse player (any player including Playstation can do this)

    Use precision predominantly but also have a might build on an armory and have every might augment in the game leveled to max, so I play both might and precision, whenever I feel like it.

    Also some food for thought. :)

    Also, OP, Just thought I'd say inspecting someone then making assumptions probably isn't a good practice and you know what they say about assumptions. :D
  7. Emoney Dedicated Player

    We all have many characters I'm sure. I have 15 myself. But, I dont put in the effort on 14 of them like my main, that's what I'm talking about. Simply saying that you use all the options available over all your toons is a bit disingenuous.

    Saying it's a matter of preference and taste, also, is skirting around the HUGE imbalances.

    Sure we can say precision vs might alone is ok. But, when you throw in the superspeed damage and clips and only use two different weapon mastery options, starts to show the imbalance.

    And EOG, is outrageous. If yall dont want to admit that, especially in terms of trivializing content, then I dont wanna hear another pro clamp peep out of you. This game isnt built for 8 players spamming supercharge abilities indefinitely. And when its gotten to the point of groups demanding healers play with multiple SCs and EOG, well, that's not right.

    As to inspecting, it says a lot. And not just that, running with a few of you because again I have 14 other characters many of them without Emoney in the name, so ya dont really know who you're playing with. I wouldnt call some of your gameplay casual lol.

    It seems the tone has changed here. It's ok to claim integrity for one aspect like clamp, but not with these imbalances that have skewed the gameplay to unhealthy unintended levels. Of course we all can play the way we want, but that doesnt make meta meta. To be the best, you need to use all of these gimmicks, and it's gotten way out balanced. And even if you dont want to be the best dps wise, running as a traditional healer or tank, without EOG and SCs, gets ya less options for groups, I've seen this personally on my healer. First question of almost every group is about my loadout, and that's silly. I'm there to heal with healer powers, not primarily buff the group and fill SC meters, and heal secondary.
    • Like x 9
  8. Proxystar #Perception

    I don't disagree with respect to EOG, I think that artifact is incredibly imbalanced but given I barely use it, so it wouldn't change my view of the clamp one bit, it's as imbalanced in EG as it is in EEG.

    I typically don't use it though, so it could be nerfed into oblivion and I wouldn't care less.

    As for super speed itself, maybe we could start talking about the distinct advantages of flight and the evasion of mechanics or the fact dust off can be used by tanks even when grounded to cheese out a shield and EOG proc.

    There's other advantages to other movement modes as well people tend to just disproportionately focus on super speed because of whirling dervish, which isn't even needed to make a competitive precision build anyway it's just marginally better than clipping with something else.

    The hate towards it is incredibly exaggerated..

    Also there are other viable weapons out there other than brawling or duel wield, its just most EG content requires range and they're optimal for that so they will tend to be disproportionately represented for simply that reason.

    There's a level of irony in having a hack at that though when every might player uses the same channeled powere including heatvision with virtually no deviation from it even you yourself have admitted this.

    Could some artifacts use some balancing, sure, could the movement modes use a little love, absolutely, the rest of what you've said though is really just nerf seeking for the sake of nerf seeking cause you just don't like seeing other people do it.
    • Like x 1
  9. Emoney Dedicated Player

    In flight if you're grounded, you lose all advantage. If your grounded in SS, you still can click in the joystick and boost, as with all in combat which isnt fair. As to flight powers as tank, most tanks are superspeed not flight. I'm one of the rare flight tanks, and that power wouldnt even be in my loadout as a fire tank, because their is no power I'd sacrifice for that slight situational use. You are stretching there with dust off. And also to flight, in combat, it's pretty useless. Most boss fights do ground. And those that dont, good luck moving .5mph to avoid something. Theres no comparison there.

    Whirling dervish out performs all other movement powers damagewise. The bonus of clipping is frosting on the cake.

    Heat vision is one power. My other 5 powers are all from the fire set, and not many people, especially the precision meta people, can say they have 5 powerset abilities. And again, it's on my fire toon, specifically my single target loadout, because it's a single target that does great damage, applies burning and spreads burning via the artifact.

    I'm glad you agree with EOG even though I doubt if you leveled it, the best artifact, to 200, you avoid using it. I simply cant believe you there.

    I am not asking for nerf. I clearly pointed out alternatives like buffing other movements, putting a timer on EOG, and compromise to tac swap by adding a forth slot while simultaneously locking out switching in combat. To your point earlier, the PC vs PS in tac swapping is not about the mouse/keyboard vs controller, it's about the delay bringing up, and exiting the menu.
    • Like x 4
  10. Proxystar #Perception

    We're not going to reach agreement on movement modes and the imbalances you perceive, we simply don't agree.

    As for EOG, yes I have it leveled, and no when I said I barely use it, I meant it, I just prefer to use other options.

    Im also a pet DPS player which is also automatically less then optimal, just by design but I have fun with it, so I don't typically EOG, you probably thought I was some sweaty EOG user though lol.

    And as for the tac swapping, no I adamantly disagree, I've seen playstation players do it all the time, I don't buy the excuses coming from a small number of PS users who like to pretend its impossible, if other console users aren't having the same issues then there's not a lot more I can say other than perhaps it's "user error".
  11. Henoshock Well-Known Player

    "Because these X things are broken, then why not have some Y things also be broken?"

    Anyways, I don't think those things you mentioned really trivialized much. Content was beatable before, sure it's slightly easier now but that doesn't mean it's "trivial" because we have the capability and knowledge to do more damage. I feel like this has been said before, but more damage does not just automatically pass content, mechanics are still relevant. More damage can mean less mechanics to worry about, but you still have to pay attention.

    PCe, CTe, FIe, MoMe, TSDe, even COUe, are just a few raids I can think of where whatever super sweaty DPS "exploits" won't automatically get you past the raid. Of course it helps, but you still need to be paying attention.

    I just don't see the argument here. You can play however you want. I wouldn't kick someone just because they're flight fire might. There's still a minimum level I'd expect you to play at however, and that mostly involves staying alive.

    If you're talking about meta, then I'd say there's nothing wrong with different builds, but you should be aware that other people won't want to run like that. It's a multiplayer game, and just like how you don't want to change your playstyle for 7 other people, each of those 7 people don't want to change their playstyle for you. Off-meta is fine, but there comes a point where you can be clearly detrimental to the group because of stubbornness to adapt as everyone else does.

    I'll say I think full healing can be borderline griefing at times. PHR is good enough that you can heal most content with only two heals. You can press more buttons if you want but they're not necessary. They what can you do? It absolutely frustrates me to no end seeing full healers sit in a corner spamming while the group is taking no damage. They won't even try to do damage. It ends up basically being a 7-man fight because the full healer is doing nothing over half the time. A healer is necessary for the raid, sure, but they could be doing so much more. Be content in your own mediocrity, but don't expect others to keep running with you when someone else putting in a bit more effort can do much more than simply heal.
    • Like x 2
  12. Talks2MuchSense Well-Known Player

    I have to agree. I just can't see any reason not to at this stage. From seeing 95% of the players in House of Legends (any phase, any time) be Superspeed, to constantly hearing Whirling Dervish behind or beside me in raids, to the incomprehensible arguments being made about SC X is better than SC Y because of Green Rings.

    To put it simply, 2023 absolutely needs 3 fixes:
    - Superspeed Powers being Jump Cancelled are left with 2-3 secs recovery time, just like Flight/Skimming/Acrobatics Powers already have.
    - Artifact Swapping is stopped. Artifacts become unequippable as soon as you enter combat.
    - EoG needs a re-examination. I don't think it needs to be changed completely, just it's Bonuses revalued. EG: Less stat boosts/ Less people benefit from being in Green Ring/ Only activates upon using a 10,000 cost SC.

    The Selling Point of the game used to be "Play your Own Way". Well, nowadays people are demanding certain requirements (EG: SP 600+, Arts all 200, Needs EoG) for you to have a chance to play. In other words, now its "Play this one way or Barely Get to Play at All". The Community has already done a spectacular job of ostracising new players with Broker Pricing, maybe its time to admit that it's happening again, before it gets out of control this time.
    • Like x 9
  13. scarblood New Player

    I dont know about you, but if my group can complete the raid the fastest possible i don't complain.
    Every game has METAS, that doesn't mean you have to use it. What i don't get is why people get so hurt when they don't see their name in the top of the leaderboard, this is now mainly a PvE game, you're not competing against the others dps to get better rewards, this is not a competitive game.

    Just because you can't do something you want others to stop doing it. Its only a game, just be grateful that does players carry you through elite content.
  14. OneWhoLaughed Committed Player

    Ah the ol' "this isn't a clamp thread" starter followed by a direct attack on supporters of it. Classic.

    None of what you said trivialises content (even when combined) more than a 100+ CR difference.
    • Like x 3
  15. Talks2MuchSense Well-Known Player

    Brushing aside the fact that this post couldn't have made it any more clear that you use all 3 things that need to be fixed, and the incredible self-righteousness behind "just be glad X is doing Y for people" argument, you completely and utterly missed the part where players are either not getting into Groups because they don't have "the required" items/stats, or as I've observed and left groups because of, people are kicking players because they don't have X or Y.

    So in both of those cases, the argument of being glad is kind of null and void. And both are far more prevalent than I'd say you're willing to admit.

    Also I have enjoyed a few different online games. There was/is no Meta in:
    - Warframe
    - The Division
    - The Division 2
    - Monster Hunter World
    - BDO

    So how can I grab 5 games just off the top of my head that have no/no significant Meta if all games have Metas?
    • Like x 3
  16. August Moon Well-Known Player

    So to all of this and every other forum post like it my response is. Why do you care so much? None of anything you've complained about thus far is a requirement to pass, let alone participate in any of the top instances. You don't need to be a speedster to tank, you dont need EOGs to heal ,and you dont need to be prec to do damage , and you for damn sure don't need artifact swapping to do any damage. "oh, well now the burn is slow" And?!?! if there's no damage checks who the hell cares if the damage is slow, you still got through it, you got your rewards and there was minimal struggle, that's literally the end goal.

    Such a small minority of yall are doing your absolute damnedest to try and spear head a crusade to get these things changed and its not because you think its an exploit , its because you're unable to fit into the criteria of what the meta calls for. It absolutely eats yall up inside to see how much you've fizzled out of the meta , to know theres a whole new requirement for the top spot that doesn't align to how you all used to achieve it. And instead of making peace with it and just enjoying the game how you want to, you instead created an entire (i wanna say a year now) campaign to try and get these things clamped out , just so you can feel important again. Yall too busy pocket watching other people that you forgot to enjoy the game

    For the longest time i too was against art swapping, i felt it unnecessary and a detriment to my own playstyle and to an extent i still feel the same way. BUT its not a requirement to preform so why does it matter to me? Im not about to uproot everyone else's fun just to feel relevant again
    • Like x 3
  17. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    Clamp supporter here.

    All my toons are flight
    Of my 3 toons that are developed 1 is prec and the other 2 are might. (My prec was prec since before it became the shiny toy)
    I have EoG but don’t really use it. I primary use trans strat and quislet
    And while I support others right to swap arts I don’t do it at all just because it requires extra work and I like seeing the animations I’m doing.
    • Like x 1
  18. Cyclonic Dedicated Player

    I feel attacked...
    • Like x 1
  19. Talks2MuchSense Well-Known Player

    Again, my own first post covered how it's effecting players as a whole. With LFG full of "Need EoG Heal" and "Need EoG DPS". I honestly cannot comprehend the thought process behind "None of anything here is hampering participation" (SIC). The longer this is allowed to continue, the more "normal" it will become.

    Last week I saw a group that was farming Source Marks in Ultimate Soldier Normal who wouldn't accept any DPS unless they had "EoG". Ultimate Soldier Normal, not Elite. Possibly the easiest Normal Raid to beat. But this group, among others I've seen doing the same, refuses players without EoG.

    I care because the 3 issues above, mixed with the unbelievable Broker, make for a fairly toxic environment. You use X or get left behind. You Pay X price or you don't get the thing you want. You don't get to be the hero or villain you want to be or are excited to play as, because you need to be Superspeed or you risk getting kicked. I care because I actually like playing this game and would like to see it get to its 20th Anniversary. But everything right now is set up so that new players don't have a hope of catching up, or just won't want to because they won't get to play how they like.
    • Like x 5
  20. August Moon Well-Known Player

    Then make your own group . Its not that complicated of a concept to grasp. People are allowed to play how they wanna play. Those people have just as much of a right to not play with someone whose going to slow their spam progression down as you have a right a right to join their group. its their group, so they call the shots. So if that's the case then make your own group so you can call the shots how you want.
    • Like x 2
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