Space and Time - The Quantum Guide Part II

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2 million dmg out seems to be the magic number in WC and always just under in SJ for me too - that is in league 3 dps runs

So for Steve Trevor, here are the base damages for Quantum abilities as close as I could get to actual by taken off gear and getting rid of SP. I still had generator mods and league hall. For some reason, Einstein's Ray does not appear in the combat parser. I did 10 hits of each ability without PI active. Einstein's damage ranged from 76-83 using my numbers for an overall of 794, placing it firmly above Lift for single target powers. Note that ER has a narrower damage range than Lift.

Wowser.. ty so much for looking in to this/posting this

I player around a bit more with Single target l oadouts last night but I kinda want to do some AOE tests too. I might have to spend a SP for power regen to make the analysis less tedious which may affect base numbers slightly.

Understandable.. in my opinion though, if all are still at even playing field (1 person doing them all ) then it is still useful and still a good way to compare

So after spending hours testing again yesterday i notice sometimes a 100 cost ability is hitting harder then a 300 cost ability. This should NEVER happen. It usually happens because of the crits. But because of this new trade off system of pwr cost vs dmg out a 300 should always do more dmg then a 100 cost.

Ive also noticed with the way TB functions now it doesnt even matter if ya use a bunch of 300 cost abilities in between TB cast. Example- use TB, use diswave>Awave>diswave>Awave. That is 4 300 cost abilities used before TB goes off. I can use TB>Awave>inpsiral x4 or x5 and get the same dmg if not higher. This also should never happen. Because of the trade off system. The only way i net more dmg is if doing diswave>Awave>diswave>Awave before TB goes off is crits. There is also a ceiling on time bomb too. Imo the way this functions is a mess.

In theory a 300 cost ability should ALWAYS do more dmg then a 100 or 200 because of the power cost associated. But this isnt always true. At least with quantum. This happens with a PI applied or not. If u use more power to cast an ability it should net more dmg. Otherwise what on earth is the point of a trade off system? Seems very silly to me. And this is why i believe quantum is so inconsistent atm on live. Or there is something very wrong with those dummies.

What i still do not understand is where are the parameters for the power sets when it comes to parsing? Why is it left up to the players to set and/or determine this?

Not to bring up another power in a quantum thread, but ive noticed the same thing with electricity. Tesla blast is a 100 cost power and voltaic blast is a 300 power cost. Tesla blast consistently hits harder on a single target. I just thought maybe since voltaic blast will hit multiples that it was designed that way but just didnt seem right to me.

So I did some crunching hear with a more realistic spec with Crits, 201 in gear, no OP pieces.

First test, 1 target


Second test, 3 target


Third test, 8 target


DWave vs. AWave. Awave did not crit well on the 1 target but was better on 3. Suprising how it pulled ahead on 8 targets.

Gravity Bomb vs Warp Barrage. These two are neck and neck. It the crit percentages really. I'm not sure if a larger sample would even it out or not.

DWave vs. Lift. This is a weird one because the powers function nothing alike. Lift does have a higher base damage on single target but Lift does not split the single target Damage, which means DWave will do slightly better on more targets.

Time Shift beats out all the other PI applicators in damage. Anomaly, as expected, is the lowest.

Inspiral Waves beats Tachyon Blast hands down. I think because the animation is shorter on Tachyon Blast is does less damage. IS is a cone though which may explain the higher damage. When I did the 8 target test, I had to make sure I did AWave and IS separate because if you are in proximity for AWave to hit all 8, you will likely miss out on hitting targets with IS.

I put all the single target abilities in there too. It appears Gravity abilities win out for single target damage.

Doing move inspects though, I don't think the problem with single target abilities has anything to do with power cost. It has much more to do with these critical hits being so high and there is literally no inbetween.




(Note, I know it says Gravitonic Field, but this is an error in the website coding because when I move inspect Gravitonic it is not the same)

So ran US/JFA on my quantum and then on my nature. The point of this is look at the amount of power i had to use to keep up as quantum. Timecop is me and no need for names to be blacked out cause its all league mates. 1st pic is dmg out, 2nd pic is pwr in. I was leading in dps the entire raid and vicky here edged me out at the end.


This was me using TB and 300 powers to do this. In the US run after i toned it way down. Wasnt using 300s after i cast TB and the dmg was nowhere near the same. Also not the completion time of the raid.

Now below is me on my nature toon, half breed. I forgot to get a pic of the pwr in. I know it was around 418k pwr in. But notice the dmg out and completion time vs quantum.

I had no deaths in either run. U can see the difference between the 2 raids is about 1 min for completion time. Yes there are other variables. But im sick of hearing this is balanced. Its not. And anyone who says it is is simply ignorant to whats going on. I needed to fill my loadout with 4 300 cost abilities to do almost 3 million dmg less then nature where i had 2 300 cost abilities. There were 2 trolls in both runs and i stressed the hell out of both of em when i was quantum dpsing.

I even showed in this thread where quantum is at as far as parsing too. And how i was able to double and even triple those #s when parsing with nature despite having 2k less might on my nature toon. Clearly my might stat is meaningless when this is going on. My quantum toon has 16k might btw. Im just going to say it, whoever tested quantum during the revamp and claimed it was great or in a good place simply didnt test it correctly. I was part of that too, but in the beginning. I stopped because i felt my feedback was completely dismissed. Not blaming players cause ultimately it falls on daybreak. But something is off here. And if ya play these 2 powers its blatantly obvious.

Lastly, and im gonna keep asking this, where are the parameters for parsing? How can there be a consensus among the community when we dont know where we should be parsing at? This is getting really silly at this point. Ask questions and get no answers. Send pms with data and get no response. Funny too how very few people are actually showing any #s when it comes to this revamp.

No issue for me with bringing up electric. Im not sure how it could be designed this way because of the trade off system with ability power cost vs the dmg it does. Abilities were changed all through the revamp where power cost was raised or lowered and the dmg was also adjusted along w/it. This just happened with 2 abilities with water on test in the last 2 days.

a loadout i think is viable. its a little wonky as the animations dont really flow into each other.
G-well, Sing, Awave, G-bomb, Ins-wave, Energy Extortion.

my toon is 125 159sp max crits and 90pts into M/P, remaining sp in flight and wep.

the rotation would be
G-well, Sing, Awave, G-bomb, Ins-wave, Energy Extortion, Sing, Awave, G-bomb, Ins-wave, Energy Extortion.

I found that this is one rotation. It can be completed just as G-well comes off cooldown. on a single dummy I did this rotation 10 times and got a total average of 24418.5k dmg (1 rotation is the above once thru), total time it took to finish was 11.9s - 12.7s. I have a screen shot of the parse I could post if it would help.

On another note, I noticed that 2 powers for each PI. feel like they should be swapped. all four powers have the same cooldown and power cost. Sing and Time Shift should just have their PI's swapped as they are both defense debuffs and Lift and Warped Barrage should swap PI's also giving Lift the debuff. swapping the PI's would allow the four powers to have a better flow with the other powers in their respective PI's.

Oh i know all about the trade off system which is why i said maybe it was designed that way. Meaning an aoe burst attack on a single target MIGHT hit less than a single target burst attack on a single target. (Its been hitting for less every time tho for me, not counting crits lol). It was the only thing i could come up with cuz i know it should hit alot harder cuz of the power cost, but i agree with ya, something is wrong with powers across the board and should be looked at. Of course with water coming out soon, i wouldnt hold my breath in hopes that it will be soon.

I cranked the numbers. Einstein's Ray without the combo has the best single target burst damage in the power set. Lift is second. They are also 200 cost powers. However, on 3 targets things start to appear as you expect. AWave and Dwave clearly do more damage than Lift with the DoT. Situationally, DWave may be better because of range.

Well single target vs aoe is another discussion. Not saying u are wrong tho. But when inspiral waves hits harder then Awave and they are both aoe there is a problem. And honestly base dmg #s dont mean much to me. Base #s might be alright but the multipliers is where stuff is getting messed up. I only say that because i see base dmg #s being posted in here. Its not a criticism of that person by any means. Black jaq i saw that time shift is the PI applicator that does the most dmg also, hands down. So to be optimal it looks like destabilized is the way to go. What happened to not pigeon holing people into using 1 loadout?

Im gonna say it again, quantum cannot keep up with other power sets unless an enormous amount of power is used. Im sure someone might say it can. Problem is no one ever wants to show it happening. Its "take my word for it." Nope i believe my own eyes over someone's word 100% of the time. Also this or that power plays better as weapons expert or hybrid is just silly. Those 3 play styles were supposed to be balanced. And now the excuse is play this power set this specific way. Again what happened to not pigeon holing people into playing 1 way? And what happened to balance?

Those raid screenshots i posted are by no means definitive proof but i posted em to show the difference in dmg out with pretty much the same time of completion. And then the power usage. I used 230k more power to do less dmg compared to nature in that one run lol. Victoria who is top is nature. Then the 2nd run is me as nature on half breed. Just wanted to be clear on what i mean about those pics. Then doing it on my nature i did significantly more dmg and still used 130k less power. Yes its a raid and there are many uncontrolled variables. But u can parse and see this same thing when comparing the 2 power sets.

The only way i see quantum being competitive when using pftt is by applying the PI, using TB and then using as many 300 cost abilities as possible before TB explodes. Of course ya have to throw a 100 in there too. But this is the only way ive found to be competitive with actual above average optimal dps players. I say this because some people dont even know what those type of players look like. Unless im missing something. But ive played the power set for over 3 years straight on my main toon. I know how to play. Despite what some on here wanna say. All these claims keep being made with no proof. Id love to see someone parse nature vs quantum or run multiple raid runs and compare dmg out vs completion time vs power used. Havent seen anyone do that yet. But ive sure seen a lot of "its all balanced" and "everything is fine" comments.

My edit time above ran out. The rotation i was using in those raids was time shift>TB>DisWave>Awave>tachy blast>DisWave>Awave. Now Awave is graviton while the others are the other PI. I did this because its a 300 cost ability. And should in theory do more dmg. I parsed for an hour before those runs and use warped barrage and any other 200 cost destabilized ability i could in place of Awave. It always did less dmg. So i used Awave regardless of the PI to see what would happen. Because using TB is about how much dmg can be done before it explodes will make TB hit harder. Problem is tho TB is capped for dmg based on our might. That cap needs to be removed asap. It was only put there to stop the backwards time bomb exploit. Just wanted to clarify.

I also want to note that in the JFA run where i was quantum dps the 2 trolls put out 2.7 million power. I used 541k of that. Which is almost exactly 20%. 1 person using 1/5 of the power out in the raid to keep up in dps. Yep seems legit

Ironically - to build SC I use Anomaly then I use D wave. So based on Numbers I am combining the worst and best hitters in 1 loadout *sigh*

Well the conundrum is the supercharges. When I look at Munitions, hands down, I would use the SC generator in every single loadout because they both generate the same PI. Do you generate enough SC is a raid to use Oblivion more than twice with Anomaly. I haven't really looked at building SC vs the damage from the SC.

Most definitely, yes, I do. I use it similar to my troll loadout, always on cooldown, in something like JFA - it works, because it applies PI to adds, so not a waste, the sc builds up rather quickly in corridors.. i'd say def at least 2x if not 3 (3 is doable no issue but I have to be on the go constantly). if I use the 50% maybe can use that 6/7 x, but tbh that one feels so weak. To clarify I do not use the OB sc white mod, i use the energiser tachyon blast one, restores a lot of power.

Just trying to reason out loadouts, Time abilities *might* be more dependable for AOE due to less range restrictions. However, will mixing PI be more effective for adds? It's possible. The greater damage of Time Shift helps balance out some of the Time abilities that lag behind. It's almost like the trees are *too* balanced.

It's apparent Gravity abilities have the best single target damage but Time Bomb and Lift both have some AoE damage so you don't completely lose out on bosses that gain adds. Plus you also have Orbital and SC for those as well.