So who is willing to play troller after stat matters?

I agree.

We should be forced to control more, from what I read so far we should just switch to healers because yet again Mo Powah is all we can do.

I really was hoping they could stand up for what they were wanting to do.

It just is not there yet(the testing community)as far as getting away from having the same powers doing the same things, even with the removal of AM.

Seems we will have what others are serving since some of us will not get on test to test the powers while others hold on for dear life to has been concepts from the past.

There is a reason the role is called Controller and not Healer, bad idea from the get go was assigning power pusher to the Controller role, we are basically stuck with it, like it or not.

WM, AM, CR differential, and inconsistent content was introduced to balance game play instead of just balancing the powers.

You are right what I suggested does have to do with the controller role because I did not quote the OP. The context of what you said dealt your response to the person saying the devs did not know what game they wanted. My quoted was expressing my disagreement with you in that context.

It is not the communities fault for the content or difficulty of game play. What goes in this game is squarely on the shoulders of the devs. They choose not to fix the issues (power balancing) so they gave us all the other junk I mentioned.

Ex. Difficulty of content. The devs told us there would be an Elite and casual version of a raid or alert, but they did not do that with Darkseid. Some would say that both versions of that raid was to difficult and some would not.

<~~~will troll for resets!

Wow you didn't know what the green lightning bolt was, come on man, even in other roles you should have been aware of that lightning bolt and the fact it indicated you were receiving your PoT

This is also indicitive of why AM's and power back have done so much damage.

maintaing PoT in itself isn't a "challenge" but it's part of the roles play structure, it's all part of the overall challenge.

Ultimately the whole auto PoT thing is laziness, it was bad as an elite gear bonus, it's bad as a stat revamp change.

The fact people don't know things like that is because they don't learn and the game lacks basic role tutorials.

This is so incorrect, come on man again.

Mental and other powers do have powers like quantum tunneling, it's not unique, the other troll classes still have detaunts and control break outs e.g grandeur.

In fact grandeur is identical to tunneling apart from the fact it doesn't "physically move you".

Mental also has a personal shield, so if you're carrying both as a mental troll you're also deciding between a defence debuff other debuff or a personal shield.

Any mental troll worth their weight will carry grandeur and I adamantly stand by that statement.

Also you'll find a lot of debuffs are also sufficient stuns so quite why you're feeling the need to choose between the defence debuff and a stun is interesting.

Quantum is not as unique as you'd like to believe.

There is zero need to auto pot, if you know how to competently troll, in fact half the time PoT moves are CC"s as well.

Quantum Tunneling is very much unique. The fact that it does change your location is what makes it unique. Just because it also drops aggro and gives damage mitigation doesn't mean it's not unique. The reason I carry QT is because it changes my location, the aggro dump and damage mitigation are just a bonus for me. I was pretty sure that was clear, but hey I guess it wasn't.

If you take Grandeur with you when you're trolling, cool that's your choice, but I've seen plenty that don't and opt for another debuff instead. Same with Gadgets, I see a lot of them carry Holographic Decoy in place of Distract. All the power sets have their own quirks and utilities. It's very rare that I see a Quantum troll that doesn't have Quantum Tunneling, because its utility extends beyond being an aggro dump and helps the user get to a downed ally or get out of harm's way faster.

Choosing between a defence debuff and a stun is because none of Quantum's defence debuffs are stuns. Time Shift slows the enemies, but it's a cone. Sure it stops them from attacking for a few seconds, but it's not the same as a proper stun. Same goes for Singularity, the other defence debuff. It draws enemies in before exploding, but it doesn't stun them. When I'm talking about stuns I mean big stuns that can properly lock down 4+ targets. The only two abilities that can do that are Anomaly and Distortion Wave. Distortion Wave has a very big radius, Time Shift and Singularity...not so much.

Stop making it out like I'm saying Quantum is some special snowflake in the family of Controller power sets, I'm not. I just said that it has a unique ability with an effect that makes it quite desirable for a troll in a way that other aggro dumps don't.

The CC on Quantum's PoT powers is mediocre at best, in terms of mass CC. One is a single target stun and the other is a two target stun. That's not gonna help much when I have an army of adds charging around, unless your solution is to needlessly drain my power bar casting Tachyon Burst (the two target stun) over and over. I never said that auto PoT is needed, and I can most definitely troll without it. I'm a damn good troll, and I won't downplay that. I've worked hard over the years to get good at my role and I won't say that I'm not good at it. I like auto PoT. It gives me more freedom in how I play. Why anybody wouldn't want that is, quite frankly, beyond me.

I used to think Quantum was unique because of Quantum tunneling but I use something similar to it whenever there's a need to make pickups in wide rooms such as FOS SM or Oan SM. Eh I don't really wanna give strats out, I'd rather be different

I think the point Light and even myself are making is "Auto PoT" is Ezi-Mode, no matter what way you try to re wrap it, bundle it up in flowers and candy floss and attempt to sell it won't change the reality.

PoT has been in this game for 6 years now, yet suddenly we're supposed to just go "hey ho, scrap that".

I don't accept that and I don't endorse that, it's just another way the game is being dumbed down to appease people that won't/don't want to actually learn an imperitive part of the troll role because apparently they need a spot to carry another stun.

suddenly in 6 years of trolling, trolls have become so useless they need another spot to stun.

I'm sorry but there is absolutely no way I can agree with Auto-PoT, at first I thought sweet, lazy mode, but the reality is that's what it is and I'd rather not have a lazy mode put in place because people don't want to accept a part of the role.

Do healers get auto HoT's as well, Maybe tanks can just get permanent aggro from casting a power, who cares about having to do one every 8 seconds, that's just pointless unnecessary carry one, let's just make it more automated.

Auto PoT is a joke, let's call it what it really is.

Also I'm going to come right out and say it too, quantum tunneling is also eazy mode, and I've been a quantum troll for long periods of time since its introduction as well (between mental, light and quantum)

Quantum tunneling makes you lazy it discourages situational awareness because people always have a "get out of jail" move.

Also I stand by my statement, any troll that doesn't carry grandeur (mental) quite simply doesn't know the true benefits of the move itself, you want to do a pick up for example you ask yourself what's better the shield/detaunt or simply the shield.

I'll let you ponder on that.

I'm not calling you a bad troll by any means by the way, I'm simply putting forth the perspective of someone who has been trolling primarily for over 6 years now

Sure, it does make it easier. I'm not disputing that at all. That doesn't mean it's not beneficial. If you view it as lazy mode that's your view. Nothing I or anyone else can say will change that, and that's fine. I view it as an opportunity to expand what I can do and be even more useful to my teammates.

Comparing Healers and Tanks to Trolls is not really a good comparison. All Tank abilities, as far as I'm aware, taunt nearby enemies, and the majority of Healer powers are just that - healing powers, because that is their main focus. Tanks hold the aggro of the enemies and healers focus on making sure people don't run out of health. Trolls have always been kind of the "black sheep" of the family, because they don't really have a singular purpose in the battle. Sure, providing power is their primary purpose - I totally understand that, but a troll loadout is not, and can not, be built solely around that - there simply aren't enough abilities available to us to fill out a six slot loadout with just power healing abilities, unless of course you want to load up on Word of Power and your movement mode's power SC.

If you feel that Quantum Tunneling made you a lazy troll I can't really speak to that since that was your own experience. Quantum Tunneling enables me to do my job even better. I'm always aware of my surroundings, always know when somebody is about to go down or if something is about to happen. A running joke in my old league was that I was always there to pick someone up before the person who died even dropped to their knees. QT enables me to do that. I like to use all the tools at my disposal. I'm not going to intentionally make myself less efficient at my job just because something is viewed as "eazy mode."

Edit: forgot the passive aggressive winky face.

I'm not saying don't use QT because it's "easy" again, I'm just calling it what it is. It is what it is and you'll use it because you can use it.

What I'm saying to you is it's not "as unique" in terms of its functionaility, apart from the fact it moves you physically, which you've accepted and we need not continue to debate it

In terms of your point that I can't compare tanks and healers to trolls, I disagree, their primary point is to "heal" their primary point is to "tank", trolls primary point is to "blue bar heal".

For some reason though trolls seem to think they're a higher class of player than they are, "how dare you expect thee to just provide you with power".

They're not black sheep, they've just on large scale adopted an attitude similar to millennials running around with their mouth open looking to be fed.

"how dare you expect thee to just heal you" - do you see where I'm going with this.

For too long trolls sit here trying to act like they're supposed to be going around stunning everything and acting like they're hard done by when the team demand they cast pot.

The reality is trolls are "batteries" but they're supposed to be important batteries without power the group dies.

What killed this was one thing and one thing only - Advanced Mechanics providing Power back

That is what killed the troll role because there was no longer even a challenge in keeping a group adequately powered, there was no requirement to have a second troll, that is what made the troll role a steaming pile of crap.

That is all the devs had to reverse, the rest could be left alone.

If you're a troll be prepared to provide power, that is your primary function.

one adequate stun and a pull that can be switched in every now and again is generally sufficient for any task as a troll, hell you can often even switch in debuffs as and when required (and let's face it, it's not often you should ever be pulling away from a tank and as a quantum troll, quite why you want to hard stun and prevent a tank from pulling would be beyond me - what's your tank doing buddy, bad tank is bad and if you're at the point of over powering something with dps, who cares about your stuns, notwithstanding the point that I address that below)

What the developers needed to do was move the debuffs around so that debuffs and stun moves were dual purpose, not drop the PoT move into auto pilot.

A lot of what you said here was just repeating what I had already said. I said the primary function of a troll is to provide power in the very post you quoted. Again, a tank tanks, a healer heals, a troll's primary function is to provide power and their ancillary functions are stunning and debuffing as needed. Tanks and healers don't have too many ancillary functions outside of tanks having group breakouts and healers providing shields.

Stunning so a tank can't pull - you're just throwing a blanket over everything. I said to use stuns when they're needed, i.e. Assault and Battery, the V adds in Love and War, the Starlings in Oan Survival Mode. I also like to stun enemies that the tank has already pulled to them. Stunned = can't damage = supporting the tank = supporting the rest of the group. I like that I will have the option to do this without sacrificing something else from my loadout.

I don't disagree with debuffs being moved around to have proper stuns on them. Unfortunately some very odd choices have been made in the revamp as to what debuffs and what doesn't.

So there we have it, you don't like auto PoT, I do. You say it makes for lazy trolls, I say it gives us more support options by freeing up a space in our loadouts. We could go back and forth on this all day but I'm sure we both have better things to do.

No I don't have anything better to do, let's keep going with this.



I just think it's not worth it to remove the "PoT" feature from the troll class when the same thing can be achieved simply by "tweaking other" powers, then neither of us lose anything

Agreed, don't take functions from trolls. I will still play the role after stats drop to see the true brilliance or damage done to trolling. They didn't have to rewrite the book on trolling and when they do, please don't reissue it as a picture book. PoT is a skill that makes you pay attention. It is just 2nd nature to some of us and yes, is easy to keep up. That 2nd nature aspect allows you to concentrate on other "important" troll functions.

Weapon Mastery made trolling a whole lot easier which directly impacted the role
AMs greatly reduced the need for power and in turn, for trolls which directly impacted the role


They are both great examples of how the devs don't know what they're doing with the Controller role and the entire game to be honest.

I think Jafin meant simply just the animation / a teleport power as far as it being 'unique' to quantum.

Fortunately I did have something better to do. That's not really continuing anything, that's you just stating your view on it again, which we already covered. Different views we what makes the world an interesting place and it encourages healthy debates like this.

Me.

Sorry for late answer, have been too busy with work to do much anything else. I would mainly hope for more content like Assault and Battery & Desecrated Cathedral. I especially loved DC alert, nobody ever asked me to switch to dps if group wasn't overgeared. Always felt in that alert that as a troller I am as important for the group as healer.

I also didn't mean that keeping POT up is challenge, I meant that it is requires most practise in troller role, especially if you want to double tick most of the time. If you feel that it is the easiest thing to do in that role, then good for you! Anyway, I don't think dumbing it down to being automatic is a good idea. In fact, I don't think there is currently anything wrong with troll role as it is now, and don't mind dps power generation at all. Problem is mainly in content, and that is unlikely to change

EDIT: I also would like to see stuns being removed from dps and healer classes in all group content.

Well it's more of a statement yeah, but let's change it to a question.

Why can't we leave PoT alone and just change the debuffs to more effective stuns/relevant debuffs, then no one loses anything, you maintain your efficiency and people that like the idea of manually keeping PoT up get to keep that?

Sure I'm not really saying the teleport feature isn't unique what I'm saying is even if it didn't have that ability it would still be mandatorily carried by any troll worth its weight just like grandeur is, so it's not carried just because it teleports you, it's carried because it's "exactly like grandeur in terms of functionality

The reason I said this is because Jafin implied that QT was carried as mandatory for quantum trolls and that this wasn't like other trolls. I said he's wrong, because he is.