So, I'd like to discuss this data...rationally, please

Interesting - especially so that Celestial and Rage with wm are 'up' (underpowered, no?). My mains currently Celestial and I find that the only power that does any real damage in a weapon mastery load out is Plague. Without Plague Celestial would be a useless power DPS wise (aside from anoint and benediction buffs, and I guess the dot sc). Plague comboed and then clipped into Smite combo is the only chance Celestial has of doing reasonable damage in a wm load out in terms of damage powers. Thats providing adds, bosses or lag doesn't interrupt your combo or you press the wrong button for too long or too early/late.

If I understood him correctly, the data is populated for the 10 (players) most DPS in a raid boss, ie. Kalibak, for the day, week.....

Like how a lot are doing now by strickly running with there league and not pugging at all?

It only escalated to arguing yesterday because I felt like he wasn't even listening to my side of the coin. I have not been rude or confrontational at all today (despite him think so) I'm actually very pleased with how he is treating me and how he is treating the issue. My first comment about dodge was merely because he quoted my post and said something I didn't even ask about so I was feeling again like he wasn't listening to me but that has been sorted and I even posted that he was probably just asking Tunso and that I would wait patiently.

I think the problem is this: lets say you take just the data from AM , and go "oh, there is not enough damage" and give it a buff. Then you take that buff, add weapon attacks and WM and you have a imbalance again, which was the problem with the old HL.

How do you account for power interactions and group buffs?

Yeah, that's the tough part. In most every powerset, there's a way to hybrid in order to benefit from both WM and the AM. Makes the balancing difficult.

As i posted in the original thread, I'm slightly concerned that Nature's AM is shown as doing significantly less damage than Nature WM, and is the only power set where this is true. This could just be an issue with the columns being mislabeled as the pattern of AM column followed by WM column is reversed for Nature.

I would assume that's felt to be averaged out noise, as would controller debuffs. Numbers are funny, though. You can actually make them do what you want in many cases. It's difficult to avoid bias.

I think thats part of disconnect. How we think the game works or should work, its sometimes different from what the people who make the game intended.

Imo the only powers that should have been up there is sorcery, earth, electric, and nature because it's a clear difference between AM vs WM crit bonus.Cele, rage, and hl AM is what throws the topic off a little. And imo the graph should hae shown AM vs the WM crit, because right now all combos with weapons is wm, clipping is gone atm.

agreed. Lies, damned lies and statistics

What I find is interesting is all powerset expect HL AM is higher than WM...that is very interesting and illustrates that HL still needs some tweaking...

Just for the heck of it I tried doing just the AM for Rage last night while in Lockdown. It was no bueno. I'm curious how Rage people are doing more damage w/o WM.

Once I started using the AM with WM again my numbers got considerably better.

I was wondering this myself. Are we really that far down the food chain?

Yeah, and i think thats especially true with the Combo powers. If you make it too effective, you can combine Combo with WM in a way that is more effective then the other powers. If you exclude the powers that initiate a Combo, you pretty much cripples the power. One of the things i saw in the HL thread were people asking for AoE that could combo into another AoE. Thats fine in itself, but what happens when you do a AM after the first combo ?

Are we looking at the same thing here?

Seems to me the AM is being compared to WM.

Maybe I am seeing this wrong, do you mind explaining why you think they should have left out the three powers your suggesting because obviously they have data to suggest that some players are using the combo's?

I'm afraid I don't understand. EDIT: Rather than derail this thread feel free to PM me.

Actually, Nature is the only one with WM>AM. HL AM is slightly higher than HL WM.

I'd say it clearly shows Nature as the #1 under performing powerset w/ AM.