So, I'd like to discuss this data...rationally, please

When was the last time you did a fully clipped spinchop? A Solar flame? Clipped combos hit and crit hard too and i mean HARD, for the time it takes to perform them, definetly harder then a WM finisher combo that isn't critting AND you will get farmore of those off in the sametime it takes you to perform 1 weapon mastery combo, simple probability laws are actually in favor of weapon clipping. The only glaring issue is the mana drain. When not getting the weapon mastery crit bonus, because you're using the AM, if you're unlucky and actually you should be at some point, your dps willplummet compared to weapon clipping, more frequent attacks packing a slightly softer punch> slow hard hitting attacks.

The only combos I've found useful are PcDL and DLcP. Of course, the new Max Damage mod will throw another wrinkle into this. The Celestial combo system will receive a big boost relative to WM, but only for those who have the mod.

Sorry I should have asked clearly - I meant to ask whether you were skipping explosive shot by clipping into a power or whether you got explosive shot off and I missed it.

Also how did you mod gear? Prec? Might? Both?

I just want to say great thread and great communication Spytle. I know it shouldn't mean more coming from me but given our past discussion I hope at least it means more for you to here it from someone who doesn't see eye to eye with you on everything.

A lot of the imbalance will be solved with the next set of gear. It isn't that WM is OP. It is that precision to might ratios were extremely imbalanced on gear, innates, mods, etc.

Clipping solar flame, skipping explosive shot completely, i've got a mix of both sitting at 2,9k precision and 4,870 might(still missing 3 94 pieces mostly vndor gear got only 2 raid drops +trink belt and face.)

With this in mind, it looks like the leading hl AM users are probably using a hybrid of wm and wm. Thanks for clarifying and calling for consideration. How about having 3 groups instead of 2? Am only with no wm whatsoever, wm only with might crits and no am. Wm and am hybrid. I believe this will give us a greater picture of damage out. Many players have a wm and am hybrid.

Agree with Remander and greenman. Either lower the precision damage from weapon mastery combos or remove the crit bonus. Having them both makes it almost impossible for Awesome mechanics to keep up with a WM build

Some people forget that the single mastery combos also hit harder than regular combos and can be clipped (e.g., regular Spin Chop vs single mastery Spin Chop). You don't necessarily have to go all the way to the finisher.

I dont consider single mastery's as part of the system per se, they're more akin to inate buffs I mean when devs talk about wm they talking about the whole thing(combo + beefed up power). But you're right ofc there's an increase of damage for those

The pet one isnt that good tho. I'm using the WM version and well, faster as the run with the AM guy (we do have a faster one with 4 DPS too but I think noone cares about that one ^^). The pet runs out of power and if you dont spend using that power who regains him power its getting quickly a dead slot. For the DoT build up you go straight Solar Flare /clip until everything is up and then you can run WM with Transmute until another rotation requires you to set up multiple stuff which you just do by Solar Flare clip stuff, otherwise WM to go.

I didn't read through all the pages to see if someone said anything about nature,but the chart for nature is def off or maybe i just don't understand exactly how they pick the data. With nature if your using the WM loadout (voracious, serpent) it does way less damage then that of using poisons so I don't understand how the nature WM is higher on the chart then the old fashion dot way.

Does it just mean they used the WM loadout more or did they use them both equal and the WM did more dps....? I just see way to many variables for a chart like this to give accurate numbers and information.

There is some question about the accuracy of the Nature portion. The AM data includes AM/WM hybrids, whereas WM is purely WM. That said, it should favor AM across the board.

Yea when I looked at it I was like no way does the WM playstyle do more dps then a traditional dot loadout. I feel this is the wrong way to go about getting data there's just to many variables like did they use a WM loadout the whole time or just 1/3 or what kinda of gear, buff sodas, skill points, are they good players, what rotation did they use and so many more things can easily throw this off.

What are they trying to get at with this chart anyway?

10 pages of fun =)

It was essentially used as a way to show where they were getting their info from. I, as well as others, were questioning that WM and AM's were equal and in response, Spytle showed this chart. What they were seemingly unaware of though, is that when people are using AM's they are still using WM as well instead of clipped weapon attacks as they intended us to. They don't seem to know that a majority of the WM damage comes from the comboed portion of the weapon attack rather then the crit window as was seemingly intended to begin.

I still think that no balance changes should be made towards that chart, we can't really distinguish the different rotation combinations, like AM+WM, AM+Weapon Clipping or WM burst. For me it just gives a general idea but nothing else. Anyways it is nice to see that the devs care to share certain info

From how I understand it, hybrid builds that use the AM and WM get put into the AM side of the chart which skews the numbers

I think all the powers should have been balanced around WM when it dropped. Cause let's face it the damage a WM weapon attack can do far surpasses and play style of clipping you can do. All the work on AM seems like wasted time to me and not a true balance factor. Why come out with WM and the crit bonus and then make things that take it away..? Why not just balance the WM and WM crits to all work together..?

And I really hope they are not planning on making any changes based upon charts like these.

For me I dont care. My beloved Earth power has a place in the DPS society.