Skill points are a pain!

Neither since I was agreeing with you/ adding to the points you made. So were you looking for sympathy or were you just making a point?

Well I definitely don't need any sympathy.

Well, that's not 100% true. A 'fun' feat is generally 'fun' because its a struggle or challenge of some sort. The 'fun' is in finally beating it. Things like "4 corners" when done at level were indeed 'fun'. As of this point, there is no challenge to getting that (assuming you can get 4 friends to go in with you) but people would still want to do them for the reward. Should feats that are no longer challenging like the EO feat in Dox now become no SP feats because the challenge or 'fun' is gone? Other feats don't have that kind of challenge, like 'grind' feats. And no....grind feats are not 'fun'...never have been. You can still have a sense of accomplishment from them, but anyone who says they had 'fun' knocking out 500 CC bounties or killing Starro 105 times(especially when the timer was 5 min), well I'd argue their sense of 'fun' is skewed a bit.

I will post this here from my ongoing and mostly ignored posts as it is related.

About three years ago there was a letter of the state of the game that at the bottom mentioned looking into an alternate path to SP. Later in a closed thread Mepps replied it was not a market/money thing but in game they were looking at. May I ask whatever happened to that? I'd really like to be able to get SP without being a feat chaser.

In the Producer's Letter: State of the Stats Revamp posted on 8/8/17 the author says:
"We’ve made stats matter and therefore Skill Points are in demand. Arguably, if you’ve not been chasing those points, you might not know the best way to go about earning more. Additionally, those that have a high Combat Rating but few skill points may feel like they are less powerful now, which is exacerbated by content also being more challenging.

We assumed, and many of you assumed, that content felt harder after the revamp because players didn’t have the skill points they needed. After careful review, this really isn’t the case. The core of the issue is the content and that’s why it comes first in the plan. (This is precisely what I meant by waiting to understand the core before addressing an issue.)

However, navigating our Feat system is a...feat...in and of itself. It is difficult at best to decipher what feats mean, or where to go and what to do to complete them. They're achievements, and fit in that perspective, but it can become frustrating when achieving those feats is part of your progression.

In the long term, we will be exploring ways to solve this problem, both in improving the clarity of feats and in eventually providing other avenues to gain skill points. MORE ON THAT LATER!"

Linked here. Its stated in the "In the long term" section at the bottom.
https://www.dcuniverseonline.com/news/dcuo-state-of-the-stats-revamp-august-2017

On that same day a thread was started concerned they would start selling SP in the marketplace directly to which Mepps replied
"We were referring to in-game avenues to unlock skill points, not marketplace."

That thread linked here was closed to further replies.
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...in-skill-points-from-producers-letter.289805/

Thanks.

Doc Anomaly

iiiiiii feel like it was artifacts, but for there to have been 4 years go buy and they never fix anything sorta has me feeling like the update at this mid year might not come and they were just trying to fill the space on the page.. kinda feels like how the tunic or greed was supposed to fix around this time but never did.

They did add ways to get sp. Time capsules. And then they made sp not as important by introducing artifacts. So that's probably your answer.

I'm firmly in the camp of "selling / buying SP is a bad idea" but also understand the frustration that comes with trying to pull together groups of player to go through older content.

A lot of this, I feel, is an issue that the publishing team should have long addressed. In some ways, it could be as simple as placing bonus week events for the older content with extra rewards or full Source Mark rewards for those players that are out of relevancy. Just by doing that, more players would be compelled to run the older content more consistently. After all, there is no rule that says the publisher can't run more than one bonus event per week.

My thought is that by going this route, some of the challenges of forming groups or finding players will be addressed enough to move forward. The other thing I believe the publishing team could do better is is to publish a new guidebook that fully explains feats, skill points, combat rating, plus an update of the combat system. That could the be stacked with other content like all of the episode synopsi, detailed information regarding how lairs and league halls work, and other detailed information that has been scattered throughout all the various game updates. And then, find a way to implement some of this into a coherent in-game tutorial for first-time players.

The simple truth is that a lot of even the most basic functions in the game is not explained either well or, in some cases, at all. Just foing this little bit of work would go a long, long way towards making the overall game experience better for everyone and especially so for people discovering DCUO for the first time or returning to the game after a long absence.

Going back to my opening line, I just do not believe in giving feats away because it defeats some of the purpose in playing the game in the first place. I can agree that a solution to lack of players in the older content should be addressed with urgency and feel that some of the suggestions I've made might fix some of what's broken.

I am hopeful that something constructive will come from this thread and maybe even some more ideas on what can be done to further things along.

I'd guess that it's all in the translation. Maybe 'other avenues' was the fact that TCs Artis and Augs/OP gear gave SP which TECHNICALLY could be 'bought'. Maybe it was things like 10X LVPE counts making those feats more attainable. Maybe it had to do more with the inaccessibility of the old content...meaning the 'other avenues' would be something like walkins or AQS. And yes...maybe it meant direct sales of SP, although if it was not a money/marketing thing, directy buying of SP seems the most unlikely.

Or maybe he was just talking out his butt and as soon as that letter went out someone pulled him aside and said "Hey...what did you add that bit for? We aren't looking at any 'other avenues'!". Point is that it's 3.5 years later and while TCs and Artis have given other ways to get SP, and we've heard there might be a change in how we get INTO the content coming...there has never been mention of direct selling of SP.

Clarity of feats and maybe a feat tracker is something that the game really needs a revamp in....I'd also think those things could be in a future QOL update...similar to the recent changes to vendors where you can sort/filter by year....although neither would make 'getting' the feats done any easier, it would make figuring out what to do and when to do it better.

I'd say until some further definition is given, chalk that 3 year old post up to "I said what now?" and consider it a moot point.

So we can uncouple the feats from stats since the fun is from beating the challenge and not the reward? Or am i mistaken in saying that?

SP will never be the end all to strength on this game. You people are begging for it's destruction. The gap created by a player new to the game and a 10 year veteran would be nearly insurmountable, causing a new player to never feel powerful, thus sending the message of defeat. The true actuality is that this game, in it's 10 years has almost always had a way to boost your toons strength outside of SP. I know you want to feel far superior to everyone else because of your 600 SP, but that doesn't bring in new players to live out their dream of being a superhero. If you don't like the system that has been in place since onset, this is not a stick up and you are not a hostage. If my words aren't enough do your own research and check to see how long people have been begging for their "equal to busy work" SP to matter, it might hurt your feelings, but it seems an intervention is needed. Also check your gear stats, you only need 60 SP to run endgame or any other content and beat it. Everything beyond that is dependent on the player themself. Every DLC is completed with the prior DLC's gear, meaning you dou are essentially preparing for the next DLC, meaning that the strength of your toon only matters to you. It is not an end all for completion of content. I have multiple low SP toons that I finish content on consistently and do very well on the damage, tank, troll, and heal boards because of overall skill and the main thing, which is everything else they give us that has nothing to do with SP, lol. High SP is good for separating players with similar stats, but means little to nothing if you don't know to block on a skull, follow raid mechanics, or debuff a boss properly. I know this is gonna rub alot of people the wrong way, but so what. Most of you only play with your league mates anyway. You better be happy that those people you look down your nose at are even interested, they are truly the one patronizing the game, spending plenty of hard earned cash to try to be your equal. Roughly 8 years of the same stupid argument, I guess you still don't get it, and never will. See you in the funny pages.

Some...maybe. But part of that 'fun' comes with getting a reward you 'earned'. Playing blackjack for charity at church 'casino night' is fun....playing blackjack in Vegas is funner when you are winning. It can still be fun when losing or breaking even(so yes...some stuff can be fun with no reward)....but it's definitely MORE fun if you walk away with more than you came in with. All this 'buying sp' or detaching SP from feats all diminishes the 'fun' (in my opinion) a least a bit.

My kids used to play games on Nintendo where they would use a 'god' mode cheat. They'd wallop through the game, finish it and never go back to it. Other games they had no cheat for they'd play again and again even though maybe they'd never 'beat' it or unlock whatever special thing they were working to get to (assuming a game had no ending). The difference there is on those games the cheats only affected the person playing at that time and their level of 'fun'. Heck I know people who think watching a walkthrough of a game on Youtube is funner than actually playing it. In an MMO, these changes affect everyone. And no...I'm not talking about the argument that 'I had to grind it...so should you' against selling feats/SP....My opinion is that once feats are easier to buy than grind, we'll see feats specifically catering to their sale vs grinding...maybe not right away, but hey...we didn't have 3% breakthroughs on artis right away either and SOC were still just an 'option' for a while. Not that case anymore.

Let's take the WV bounty feats. During the DLC they were a chore, but as people needed the loot for gear and were getting applicable drops, I doubt many would have bought the feats. At this point it's getting harder to find good groups at will, but still doable....definitely more of a grind, but doable. In 2 more DLCs when the marks go away, I'd guess they will become very hard to get done....add selling the SP as an option and I'd say they will be 10x are harder as more people buy them once out of relevancy. In a year? You'd be all but forced to buy them or just let them go. So people buying the feats directly affects someone else who would opt to grind them out.

Without casuals like myself willing to spend $100 in a month switching powers instead just grinding out 5 new characters or spending $50 to level a artifact to 120 because i switched roles and know ill end up going back, all when its not a xp weekend, this game wouldn’t survive. The players who have time to grind out for hours to obtain things for free probably are less beneficial economically to the welfare of the game then a casual like myself. So im confused why they feel they should be catered to.

Should 10yr veterans not be stronger than a skip toon created a few days ago? If they were, do you think anyone would bother being a 10yr player? What are the chances those week old players have pumped in as much money as even a single 10yr veteran? The game is a business, they'd be smart to keep their most loyal customers happy while getting new players in and helping them slightly. Which they have aka skips/ free seals and catalysts/ free episodes/ bonus weeks/ whatever else. I played 9 years and never got that help till this year. But please everyone, continue to ask for even more free help.

Said it before and I'll say it again, this game is turning into the orange lantern corps

$100 a month for how long? We all know plenty of 10yr players that spend that a week. And after 10yrs, continue to do so.

Idk if your exaggerating, trying to be funny or being serious... but i doubt many of us know more then 2 players who spends $100 a week

Do you really want the game to start catering to 'let me spend as much as possible' players? I know there are some out there, and DBG thanks you for your support, but people are already burned out on what they spend on this game (not you...I know you enjoy that part of it the most), MMOs survive long term because of grinders...not people who come in dump a bunch of money and then move on to the next shiny game. You might be the exception to the rule, but I know people who've spent 1000's like this on games in a short time...they play them for a while...then move on. Not that there is anything wrong with doing it, but I don't see how that being the norm would be better for the game in the long run.

I'm being one of those things. On the forum alone, I can think of probably 2 dozen. In game, far more. There's players that have spent most people's yearly salary on a few of their toons in the last few months.

Which is also something everyone vying for this should be thinking about. Basically, this as a package would cost about $2k for a single character to be elite level end game dual roles. You may disagree on that price, I'm thinking its low since 6 artifacts would be like $1600 and that's if you aren't paying for source marks too. But say $2k. There is absolutely no guarantee that that player still wouldn't be kicked because they don't know what they're doing. How angry would that player be?

While I'll agree that massive SP is not required to do well (assuming you build up your Artis...can be bought already) and know how to play well, getting SP is NOT that difficult. There are a handful of feats which require massive amounts of grinding...and a few others which are 100% unattainable now, sure. But probably 400 of the 600+ SP out there are in relatively easy feats, style feats and a few feats you can buy already like TC feats. I know 10 year vets that barely have 400 SP, and I know 1 year old CR skip toons that have more than that already. The whole argument that people 'cannot' get the SP is the big issue. 'Don't want to' or 'Don't know how to' would be a better argument. Both of those can be resolved with some effort and time. 'Don't have time to' is a bit more realistic, but if you only get in an hour a day or 3-4 hours a week, who cares what your SP is?

They just need to find a way for new/returning people to get into the game. And by game we mean end game.... the early content is dead. The 255 and 290 Cr skips shouldn’t give 77 sp.... they should scale with the game

The answer is sitting right in front of everyone, but nobody really wants to admit it.

I haven't seriously played in years and I mean years.

I have people that I have made plenty of friends throughout the years and I still stay in communication with.

For me it breaks down to being practically the same as the model they take with the concept of free to play, being we are free to play how we choose.

Our bias and own choices lead ad to either want to run certain content or don't.

In a sense it is a self for filling prophecy that leads to the core problem with not being able to get into content or how many SP is necessary or whether our success is based on however we want to view things.

So many people want to make the claim that it is most difficult to get into older content, yet they are not alone, being there are a whole lot of people who choose not to run the older content

There are people who may or may not, be intentionally setting the stage for the choice that what is enjoying or not out of personal preference and out of their own desires, speaking their peace with little to no concern for others view and with a opposing view to what theyay consider fun.

As someone already stated not all feats are fun, but fun is subjective, just like whether someone who decides to sub, play for free, or become premium and only purchase what they want.

If and from what I am reading so far on these pages, I ever decided to return, I will face the shortfalls that you have clearly stated.

Because I am not so inclined to follow the crowd, I don't particularly pay attention to those who look at the bad but take no actions or who seeks to push something that they feel on to others.

I get that we all have things that we like with the game and things from other games that we would like for this game.

We need to take some responsibility though for the low queue and for not wanting to group up with others.

It is not difficult to find groups for the new stuff, I can only assume, it really shouldn't be so difficult to group up with others, but we are like sheep and we will believe it is impossible even when others constantly say that you don't need max SP to run anything, you barely need SP to even get to endgame, you definitely don't need them to aquire the latest gear.

The only 2 places they are needed is in SM and elite raids, neither are needed for progression.