Skill Points: a real issue.

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Pale Rage, Nov 28, 2021.

  1. Plowed In Loyal Player

    It’s as easy as finding like-minded individuals who have the same goals…
  2. Tiffany6223 Devoted Player

    I'm offering options. Perhaps there are better ideas. But at least I'm trying to think of something.
    • Like x 2
  3. thedemonocus Loyal Player

    Not everyone is lucky enough to find a league willing to go back and do old feats, for a lot of people just finding an active league is a challenge. The fact is it is much harder to get those old feats now vs before the clamp and for some players its impossible.
    • Like x 1
  4. Sleepy Healer Steadfast Player

    I play on the lesser faction, if ur a villian I feel for you then, but hero out populates my side 5 to 1
  5. Dene Devoted Player

    It wasn't easy before.. not sure why ppl think ppl were flooding to old content before the clamp, they weren't.

    Also - the content is not that much harder AND the new/returning people need help, yes 100%, but removing the clamp will just mean they will get bored.. everyone higher in CR will just tear up the old content... instead of actually playing it
  6. Tiffany6223 Devoted Player

    What we've got now isn't a good solution either! 10 wipes on the last boss of VMF is unacceptable. I don't know if they finished, I left out of anger and frustration. VMF was by far easier when I was 2 DLCs above the content than what we have now in EEG.
    • Like x 2
  7. Dene Devoted Player

    My opinion is 10 wipes on last boss VMF is about the mechanics, not CR or our stats being adjusted.
    • Like x 1
  8. Tiffany6223 Devoted Player

    The weaker players were consistently going down, me & the battle-controller, I guess is what he could be called, were the stronger players with End Game gear. We couldn’t do anything while trying to pick the others up. Please note while we are picking the other 2 players up we are also still being attacked, which led to the wipes. This was a consistent pattern for all 10 wipes, we went down trying to revive the other 2 players.

    I do blame the clamp. I am trying to play with severely weakened stats. This is why I had just rather stay out of EEG content and remain in only End Game content where I am strong. VMF, NGN, DWF, all of these I will avoid if & when I do ever play another EEG instance. I am sure there are others. Since this bad run Sunday afternoon, I have only done the dailies & logged out. Call me petty or whatever, I don’t care, that instance made me so mad at this game that I don’t want to play it. I hate EEG content. I hate the stat clamp. I’m starting to hate DCUO.

    Character progression truly is only gatekeeping to the next DLC, other than that it is meaningless. I’m still mad about it, and it is a stupid thing to get so mad about since it is over a stupid video game that is supposed to be a fun escape from reality.
    • Like x 2
  9. Pale Rage Dedicated Player

    Actually you're off a little bit. Before the clamp, people were actually running old content more often. I don't touch older content anymore since the clamp. Before the clamp, I regularly setup old content feat runs with my league, and regularly invited from lfg on runs to 'advertise my league.'

    3 times a week I would setup raid runs (4ppl from lfg), and 4 times a week I would setup alert runs (allowing 2 from lfg). I helped a LOT of people get SP doing that. Then the clamp hit.

    Now, newer people (again you're wrong here) actually like when a big ol strong person comes in and plows through the content. Why? Because they're there for the rewards. So a GUARANTEE that the content will get finished, and likely with a feat or two, is EXTREMELY appealing to new people. I know this, because of how many times I got thanked for running old content (pre-clamp) by new people who were EXCITED to get to my strength and level, so they could do that for others too.

    Fact is, clamp killed DC's older content for a significant portion of the players.
    • Like x 5
  10. thedemonocus Loyal Player

    that has nothing to do with finding a good active league not to mention the fact most leagues have minimum skill point requirements to get in so that locks out pretty much every new player right there, i've seen some leagues in LFG asking for 500-600+ now you tell me what new player has that many skill points?

    Its easy to say git gud or go find a league but that does not mean it can be done by everyone. The longer they keep gatekeeping skill points the more players the game will lose and the more potential new players who will just give up and quit until the game loses so many that we all lose the game and than none of us get to play anymore. I happen to like this game so i wanna see it continue not get shut down because of elitist players and bad decisions.
    • Like x 5
  11. Melusine Midnight Rainbow Phoenix

    Getting rid of the clamp would allows veterans to power level and really help that nice-seeming guy and his wife. It used to be a great way to help people, while teaching mechanics and showing what power levels they could achieve.

    Now I feel like it's much harder to get or give help, because people are disinclined and disincentivized when it comes to runs over 20 minutes. It's become inefficient for vets to take time to help, and when they do, the ability is limited by clamping. I'd like to invite friends into the game and be able to hook them up with some easy SP. And I still can, but now it's a much more grindy/sloggy process.

    I completely echo what Pale Rage said above.

    Also I completely disagree with the idea of separating SP from feats. Feats are probably my favorite skill point system in any game ever. I like that if you play it a certain way you get sharper over time. That said, I do have a suggestion for helping newer players with lower SP. I will post that below.
    • Like x 1
  12. Melusine Midnight Rainbow Phoenix

    I'd like to see some kind of "false bonus" SP for newer players, perhaps granting 1 "fake SP" per minimum CR of endgame. So, for example, players would now get to use 368 SP. However, once they had acquired 368 SP of their own, they would start gaining SP for real, just like it is now.

    Not only would this allow more casual players to participate without penalty in endgame, but it would sell CR skips like mad. Win/win for players and devs alike.

    Perhaps it should be a lower number, or based on tier (50 SP per tier, for example). Regardless I think some kind of "fake but useful SP" equivalent would really encourage activity. Some might say that this will be equal to selling SP, but it's much more like a mortgage you pay off, than a straight-up sale.
  13. Sleepy Healer Steadfast Player

    I don’t see that on my faction shrugs. The options are there for a new player
  14. M3RCURY97 New Player

    Can't they just add a piece of gear? That would buff stats in eeg? More of a grind for new gear sets though. Seems a simple solution.
  15. Dene Devoted Player

    Just to be clear

    You are saying newer people do not want to play the content, they just want to be rushed through to get to the end ? If that is the case then why bother playing? DCUO should just have people log in - get ALL rewards of stuff they were thinking of doing for the day and they can then log out..

    You're describing a perspective that 100% exists, but so am I, some want to actually play, to go through the instance at a reasonable pace.. not everyone needs/wants a "big ol strong person" to come in and obliterate everythjing and they just stand there 1. doing nothing 2. learning nothing 3. not even understanding WHY they are there. In fact, before the clamp, there were a LOT of threads complaining about the "big ol strong person" coming in and ruining things.

    The stat changes didn't revert everyone back to day 1 or anything drastic, all they did was allow the content to be run at a more steady pace.. strong/skilled players are still strong/skilled.

    You are describing those that just want the reward.. I am describing people that want to play the actual game. DCUO is a journey, it is an MMO, what you want is no grind, no journey and instant gratification, that will never happen in an MMO

    I 100% agree things need to be looked at re: SP but removing the clamp won't be the miracle fix everyone thinks
    • Like x 1
  16. Dene Devoted Player

    Just to be clear

    You are saying newer people do not want to play the content, they just want to be rushed through to get to the end ? If that is the case then why bother playing? DCUO should just have people log in - get ALL rewards of stuff they were thinking of doing for the day and they can

    You're describing a perspective that 100% exists but so am I, that some want to actually play, to go through the instance at a reasonable pace.. not everyone needs/wants a "big ol strong person" to come in and obliterate everythjing and they just stand there 1. doing nothing 2. learning nothing 3. not even understanding WHY they are there. In fact, before the clamp, there were a LOT of threads complaining about the "big ol strong person" coming in and ruining things.

    The stat changes didn't revert everyone back to day 1 or anything drastic, all they did was allow the content to be run at a more steady pace.. strong/skilled players are still strong/skilled.

    You are describing those that just want the reward.. I am describing people that want to play the actual game. DCUO is a journey, it is an MMO, what you want is no grind, no journey and instant gratification, that will never happen in an MMO

    I 100% agree things need to be looked at re: SP but removing the clamp won't be the miracle fix everyone thinks
  17. Captain Catalunya Active Player

    Cuando la gente media (ni OP ni noob) entramos a una alerta nueva solemos ir con grupo completo (2 dps - 1 healer -1 tank) y a base de ir a diario y conocer las mecánicas, al final podemos ir de cualquier manera (4dps CHMn o 3dps-1tank CHMe) y habiendo completado la alerta 200 veces, dentro de 10 años, seguiremos haciéndola con tranquilidad como antes hicimos con las otras.
    Si entras a una instancia nueva para ti o alguien del grupo, con pocos sp, con poca experiencia y sin roles básicos, no es de extrañar que salga mal.
    Y aquí hay un problema del emparejamiento aleatorio. Si el juego detecta un troll, entras en VMF con 3dps-1troll y si no han estado 200 veces se puede complicar; cosa que no ocurriría si en vez del troll hubiera entrado un healer.

    No es el clamp, es, en general, el nulo interés de la gente nueva en aprender las mecánicas de cada instancia y de la gente veterana por explicar por centésima vez las mecánicas: queremos 3 dps que quemen los enemigos o queremos entrar con CR 430 a matar a Ultra-Humanita en Isla Gorila, 5 minutos y a recoger el premio.
    En mi liga corremos cualquier instancia N y algunas E de vez en cuando, nada de E+, y tras unas explicaciones básicas, las cosas salen bien, sea con gente como mi main (700sp 200art) o mi alter más pequeño (100sp 80art); con gente vieja (2011) y con gente nueva (2024).

    Otro problema es la poca población de support roles (y eso es por culpa de los artefactos en gran medida), los support roles son maltratados: Ejemplo: todos queremos troll para raid, pero en general no los queremos para CHMe, MTCe, GPe, etc. lo que obliga a la gente a subir su DPS, y por mucho que los ineptos de DB se empeñen en que la gente meta dinero en art, no todos están/estamos dispuestos y si solo llegan a 3 art, los hacen de dps que valen para grupo y para jugar en solitario.

    También hay la problemática de población activa, si bien servidor muerto no es preciso, hay que reconocer que el EU PC/PS por distintos motivos es menguante, y que no siempre puedes hacer lo que quieres cuando quieres.

    Y de ahí mi empeño en hacer ver a DB que su cruzada contra los veteranos que no tenemos la necesidad de gastar 100€ al mes es contraproducente, no somos ni mucho menos el principal pilar, pero si una parte importante dentro del juego.
    Tengo 20.000 SM, no me interesa nada la recompensa Omnibus o el x2, las cajas de Bounties las almaceno por coleccionismo.
    Yo hago mil cosas porque me entretiene, pero entiendo que muchos veteranos no hagan nada de eso (lo han completado 200 veces y no ganan nada de valor real). PON RECOMPENSAS SUCULENTAS PARA TODOS y verán como se llenan esas instancias con gente con conocimientos, deseosos de compartirlos con la gente nueva y obtener ese premio. Rompiendo así la brecha bestial entre jugador nuevo - jugador veterano.

    [IMG]
    La caja 52 es del nuevo episodio Gotham Maldita-->Shock-->Black Adam...la 44 Milla de la diversión. No me interesa ni el premio de las cajas nuevas -.-' no he abierto ninguna y no pago por repetir.

    No soy el mejor, como yo hay cientos y los hay mejores, que con la recompensa adecuada entrarían y compartirían su experiencia en instancias N viejas y pondría fin a tanto debate sobre el clamp.
  18. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    The only real difference that made things 'easier' in the past is if you needed to knock out something that will take 10+ runs, besides the fact you need to find 'qualified' people now vs 'bodies' in the past...you also need to pin them down for 10x more TIME now. Runs like Nexus with 2 checklists, one random one you could align, used to be a few hours of banging things out on quick repeats...now? Days? A week or more? Who has time for that to help out some rando or new leaguemate?
  19. Tiffany6223 Devoted Player

    When framed this way, I have already completed the journey, so for my own sanity, I am not going to be doing any more EEG content again like I refrained from doing before. I am super strong in the current 3 DLCs like I should be because of my growth & progression. EEG is regression. I just can't enjoy it and the whole time I was in it, I was just wanting it to be over.

    You are right that the stat clamp didn't revert everyone back to day 1, only those above level get crushed, everyone else gets buffed upward. I'm equate EEG as being clamped to after being a few weeks old as opposed to day 1. Certainly not a month or more, and absolutely not 2 DLCs above.

    This is my experience with EEG and it is not fun for me.
    • Like x 1
  20. Solarverse Committed Player

    This right here. For my wife and I, we tend to stay away from Supergroups/Guilds/Leagues anyway, primarily because we have yet over the course of our years find one that isn't filled with some type of drama. I'm not in my 20's anymore, I'll be 50 next year and my tolerance for people in general has diminished drastically over the years, so we end up pugging a lot. However, the new chat system should help with that...I don't recall some of the options that are there now being there when I last played. So there is hope in that. :)
    • Like x 1