should Jump cancel be removed or reworked?

Their have been debates about jump cancelling as far back as when weapon mastery was a thing. i think it leaks back as far as to 2014.

ive always thought of JC as a way to just cancel out your animation to avoid damage? im not sure if that was the intention when it was created but the way it is used now is to cheat damage numbers by canceling out animations to speed up your damage process. im personally not a fan of that and their is no true balance in that. it leads to the damage potential excelling over other powers

I myself am both prec/might i would be lying to you if i told you the ability to jump cancel out of flurry shot didnt make the damage from this weapon absurd and my go to source for damage 99 percent of the time. Alot of players think it naturally does the damage it does. that is not the case jump cancel is the heart and soul of the reason prec players do the damage they do with the dual wield/flurry combo. its not about the weapon being broken its about the ability to jump cancel and non stop use the combo.


Their are other powers for example gadgets might where you can jump cancel to speed up damage potential so this isnt just about prec.

but the point im making is do you feel jump canceling is being used wrong in the game or do you even feel its an acceptable way to play? i hate it personally i like it in the sense of being used to avoid a dangerous situation but as a tool to be used to enhance your damage? not really a fan.

it used to be worse? There we go...

Reworked. Even though it's been reworked how many times now?

Reworked so it works like it did before the old Dev team destroyed it. Jump Cancelling added an extra level to DPS'ing that was enjoyable.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. There's no work-around that isn't going to be loop-hole'd unless you add part of the damage totals to the dovetail as well assuming that can be done.

In my opinion, removed. I know they said clipping was/is intentional but I'll never believe that.

Edit: maybe reworked. I dont know. With hard light you definitely have to do it so reworking I'm sure would be easier. Definitely wasnt a fan of the old days of hard light players looking like ******** bunnies on crack hopping all over but I know that's what had to be done to be competitive. So again, going with reworked...

Reworked.

It's fine as is..If people can't practice jump cancelling to keep up then IDK what to say..They need to address things that are truly broken in game. Like legends that don't work, period. Or complete imbalance and brokenness in arenas...Or falling thru the floor at the start...Or invisible people..Or powers that are behind(as usual) They need to pick what they want a power to be and stick with it..Not change how it works to the point its unrecognizable. To me, WM/AM era was the closest we ever had to balance.

So I don't pay ton of attention to this stuff but it's my understanding that the issue is that power dmg output when clipping was dovetailed so that if you jump cancel to clip powers you won't get maximum output. Where as for weapons you don't get the same effect. So if you max prec, plus add in the right artifacts and then leverage multiple hit attack weapon mastery you can output significantly more damage.

Is all that correct?

If so then I'd say at least re-work back to the advanced mechanics so that powers can keep up. I personally don't love the idea that the only way to keep up on the score board is to beat the hell out of my space bar and risk carpel tunnel.

You spelled broken wrong

Sorry .... my bad

This is incorrect. Weapons end up losing a part of their damage if you jump cancel early as well. The reason weapons perform is because the damage done isn't in the dovetail, it's just an ending animation/lengthening where your character does nothing. If timed correctly (which requires extensive practice) you can catch the small window between the last damage tick and the dovetail starting to jump cancel, which allows you to get max damage from the weapon combo while avoiding the dovetail animation. This trick is known by old school fire might based dps's (pre-AM/WM) who used to jump cancel Fire Burst at the last second because it could speed up their rotation. Most people starting off and even veteran prec's do it somewhat often, will jump cancel and lose the last damage tick instead of risking hitting the dovetail. So Flurry, as the example for ST, has 4 ticks in the WM portion. Most times, a good prec dps will be getting 3-4 of those ticks. How many 4's they can land without hitting the dovetail is where the gap is for competitive prec dps's. This dovetail phenomenon happens in some might based scenarios, the main difference is that might based dps's often have burst moves, they don't have a 24/7 "channel" type damage and even when they do have channels, theirs are longer which decreases the amount of dovetails they get to avoid. So say in 12s, I might avoid 8-9 dovetails of Flurry. You get around 2 Heat Visions in 12s. Even if you avoid the dovetail (which you shouldn't because you could lose the explosion damage at the very end from the Solar Amplifier) you only avoided 2 dovetails compared to 8-9. Same thing goes for Absorb Heat or any other channel type move that can be cancelled via various means. Gadgets might based is a good example of something closer to prec because it can cancel an animation every 3s'ish with Turret at least so it's closer in terms of speeding up rotations. If you don't have channels in your rotation, you're not allowed to jump cancel regular burst moves to avoid the dovetail. And when you do have channels, they're long and not frequent. If you can't speed up your rotation or have tremendous passive damage over time, you won't perform at the highest level on ST.

I would say remove jump canceling, it wasn't post to be in the game in the first place. They adjust it jump canceling so people can use it if they want to, but if you do you won't get the full amount of damage.

After all there new changes jump canceling is not working right.

With that logic, Capcom should remove cancels from Sf as canceling an animation into a special move wasn't intentional in the original SF2.

Did you just go way back to the first street fighter games? Or are you talking about latest console street fighter games?

The original release of Street fighter 2. Canceling you attacks into a special move was a glitch . Dhalsim's yoga teleport was a glitch . Capcom then decided to patch the game but kept certain bugs as features because they were cool. Combos would have been 2 hit attacks otherwise. Pro players exploited the game tondo cool stuff that today seem illogical to not have in a fighting game.

Original street fighter 2?? From like 1992?? The Sega genesis version?? Lol...

Don't get rid of jump cancel entirely, that would dumb down the mechanics and as OP stated, players doing channeling moves, (support or DPS) have no way of getting out of SKULL attacks. J/c is an equalizer, without it the powers with focus on channeling moves would be more low tier (ex: fire, ice, muni).

j/c is a staple in fighting games. Coming from that genre, I look at it as a plus if an action MMO has it.

I rather they make jump cancel viable (having high dmg potential) to certain moves for ALL weapons. Two to four moves for each weapon, maybe the bottom row since more SP to get there.

And if they could bring MIght moves of all powers to match, they can keep the existing dove tail cap.

If the devs wanted, they could remove the dovetail on some MIght moves. This opens up DPS rotation possibilities for j/c and block cancel. It's something an advanced combat system should strive to be. Start with a few moves for each power, should be easier to balance.

If they want to take it further, double jumps (not just acrobatics), ground dash (that can be canceled), air dash. Bring back roll cancel, if pvp's dead anyways, bring it back so we can use in PVE.

Welcome to the forums.

Yea had they not turned that bug into a positive fighting games would probably be very different today (2d ones at least).