Revamp Controller Role (Strip Power Out)

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by BaelinFishman, Oct 25, 2021.

  1. BaelinFishman Well-Known Player

    Don't fly off half-cocked before you read this.

    TL : DR: Strip Power Out from Controller's and have them buff the group in more ways and to compensate raise everyone's power regen by a flat amount.

    Controllers used to be...well controllers. They used to CC/stun targets and they used to do what the old description used to entail which did not used to include giving power as part of the description, but before the revamp controllers were seen to purely exist to power the tanks/heals/DPS. And adds don't stay stunned by the troll for more than a sec or so before they continue trying to 1 shot the tank roles in the group. Now thankfully the revamp made everyone largely power self sufficient except for the few healers that spam n' hope heal or the DPS that DPS the boss when he's taking 1's then complain that they have no power while just mindless pressing buttons like a chimp. And artifacts especially in the case of PHR with healers have made controller power out largely irrelevant.

    On a personal note, I buff troll and have not used my traditional troll armory since I started using the claw because of the reasons I've listed above. And I've talked to other controllers out their both people I run with and others that I just see in pugs and all of them say that ever since they started using the Claw artifact they've never stepped foot back to into traditional battery/shield spam trolling. Sure their is the ever present toxic bunch that will kick you for not using EoG or buff troll (screw those people) and those people are not super common in the community, not from what I've seen at least.

    So here is my suggestion, as the title says strip power out from the controller role completely and get back to stunning/CCing things, have more abilities built into the powerset that buff the group in different ways and treat the buff troll artifacts like Claw/Cog/Tetra as icing on the cake. And raise everyone's innate power regen by a flat amount from there current values.
    • Like x 1
  2. Kimone Luthor Genetech Clone

    I actually don't mind Power Regen mechanics because it's sort of a Superhero staple - we see examples in Ye Auld Comicks rather frequently where someone exhausts their energy or is given a massive boost by one of their teammates, and the Controller Power Return mechanics parallel that. Also, it's incentivizes me to use my brain when I'm developing a loadout so I'm not painting myself into a Power consumption corner.

    That said - more Buffs or Debuff mechanisms aren't a terrible idea. That also said, I do have an upcoming clip that should clear up a couple misconceptions about how effective buffing and debuffing is now. Let's just say "you want a Controller in your group".
    • Like x 2
  3. Cerulean Osprey Well-Known Player

    I don’t think Controller needs a drastic revamp, but the devs should embrace the versatility of Controllers when designing new content and artifacts.

    Trolls have the option to go full Battery, Buff, or Battle Troll. And within those choices, I’ve found times where it makes sense to do a SC Build so I can get my Gadgets Battle Drone SC to help shield the group. I’ve considered building up the Artifact that helps with Supply Drops.
    • Like x 1
  4. BaelinFishman Well-Known Player

    I mean, sure you have the option, but to power/battery troll but for most if not every group out there, you're giving more power out then most people in the group could use, meaning that buff or battle troll is the most beneficial all around. In the case of buff you're giving enough power to everyone and buffing dom/health/resto in the process and giving the DPS a welcome buff. Battle troll is the same + bonus damage. I mean my suggestion would essentially make everyone a buff a troll and way more viable in groups.

    Personally I want us to get away raid design rut we've been in lately. Wherein adds 1shot everyone thats not a tank, heals exist to purely heal the tank/shield the group and DPS make the raid shorter for everyone. I also want to get away from this shield penetration nonsense. Its a cool mechanics, but its been overused much like mind control.
    • Like x 1
  5. Smashbang Wallop Well-Known Player

    Since clamping came in, healers and/or a tank (or 2 or 3 TotD) are absolutely required in pretty much all 8-man elite content and all the recent 4-man elite stuff.

    Trolls are a luxury roll. Nothing "needs" a troll, NOTHING! Unless you include power for players with low specs or poorly built toons, or (iirc) that Darkseid 8-man for that one room with the switch! Whoopee!

    They really need to start making what a controller does more relevant - and yes I realise the current game mechanics might make that hard for past content, but surely new content could be coded that way? Don't ask me how, that's for the devs.
    • Like x 1
  6. BaelinFishman Well-Known Player

    I think that if we strip the power aspect from them and position them as a buff and stun role instead of power mixed in with a little buff that would make them relevant again. Because when I heal, I don't need trolls whether I'm doing a EoG armory or a pure heal armory. I can't tell you how many times I've been in a group where the troll dies, no one revives him either refusing to or can't...and sure I drink a soda more often or use my supply every now and then, but its like you said, the power is more of a nice-to-have...not really needed for me.
    • Like x 2
  7. Smashbang Wallop Well-Known Player

    Again, that wouldn't make them relevant (needed), just a luxury - that's no different to what they are now. Even if they did everything you suggest, you'd NEED tanks, healers and dps, you wouldn't "need" trolls.
  8. OnlyNomad The One Above All

    They would be relevant (Needed) if the fights were designed with the requirement of having to control enemies outside of tanking and if bosses or enemies would only took damage if they were debuffed.

    If they do make Controllers a role where you actually have to control enemies, buff, debuff and what not, they would have to update a lot of the gameplay (fights).

    The problem is that this game was based on the trope of fantasy game roles (Tank, healer, damage) and at the core of it, Controllers were always kind of meant to be useless because they never really existed. All their abilities are kind of a luxury right now rather than a necessity.

    If it was me, I would make it so that certain enemies/bosses only took damage if they're debuffed by a Controller. I would also add specific enemies in certain instances who need to be controlled by a Troll specifically otherwise they do ridiculous damage or make the fight way harder. I would also require certain fights to have players buffed by Trolls (shields, health, etc.) otherwise the enemies are more difficult to deal with.

    Like you said, Controllers need to become a necessity and not a luxury.
    • Like x 3
  9. BaelinFishman Well-Known Player

    Part 2 of the plan would make it where stuns are much more needed, design raids that include all roles, not just tanks, heals and DPS. I mean troll stuns as I stated above barely last a few secs then the adds are immune. On top of that tanks pulls will sometimes pull the adds right out of their CC effect nullifying the troll stuns completely.
    • Like x 1
  10. Dev72 Well-Known Player

    Remove the passive power regen ability from all roles, but troll...or make it to where if have buff troll in group, power regen is significantly reduced where power troll is also needed.
    • Like x 4
  11. catplaysxoxo Dedicated Player

    Lol no
  12. Dev72 Well-Known Player

    Why not? Ohhhhhh it doesn't favor the DPS stack meta for MOAR burn.
    • Like x 3
  13. Cerulean Osprey Well-Known Player

    There’s a lot of interesting ideas in this thread, but just to be realistic, the devs aren’t going to change anything drastically… especially since artifacts are such a fixture in the game and conceivably, a person could’ve spent a few hundred dollars on an artifact. I think a more realistic hope isn’t necessarily to remove or change existing things, but that they add new artifacts, allies, and fight mechanics that gradually shift toward a more defined role for Controllers.

    I think there’s a bit of precedence in Throne of the Dead that only a tank can kill Essence of War. I’d personally love a fight where we have to fight bosses that can only be damaged by certain roles.

    As an idea, with Perpetua coming, y’know it’d be cool if she spawned 8 adds that were versions of our raid group from another Earth with a different color pallette, with the same roles, and only specific roles can damage them. I.e. Perpetua spawns Earth-57 Cerulean Talon, a Controller, and only a Controller can damage him.

    It’s just about the devs being creative in the raid mechanics, rather than just reinventing the the underlying system and having to rebalance enerything.
    • Like x 1
  14. Dev72 Well-Known Player

    Here's the dig though....why should it be a requirement for a support role to have to spend that extra money to be one? At my count, to be a viable support role(generally accepted by the community meta) if playing both roles is to level at a minimum of 8 to 9 arts leveled at 160 or better. This right here is the reason why there is a lack of supports in general due to the buff meta being specifically pushed toward support roles, and this is now being extrapolated by ally buffs.

    What makes the DPS role so special that they themselves are not required to run those buff tools, especially considering that being a DPS doesn't require anything more than watching positioning and pressing buttons with the occasional trinket clip.

    To be honest, this current meta is overused and the color has worn off to the point where the Devs really need to step in and do something about it rather than adding an occasional mechanic (phase stacking) easily bypassed by a battle role.
    • Like x 1
  15. catplaysxoxo Dedicated Player

    I'm not a dps lol
  16. Dev72 Well-Known Player

    Then why not push some of that buff requirement laid at the feet of support roles to the DPS role?
    • Like x 1
  17. catplaysxoxo Dedicated Player

    What you are suggesting and I don't know how long you been playing DCUO but everyone perhaps a bit of exaggeration but many were vocal of trolls not being just a battery hence why they gave us the ability to regenerate our own power. Trolls aren't just for bartteries and a good player knows how to maintain their power and there are many ways to go about it. Taking that away is going back to how many view trolls and that is a big no no.
  18. TheLorax 10000 Post Club

    You DPS in support role. You're not a support role.
  19. catplaysxoxo Dedicated Player

    I can be just because I don't use many shields like an ice tank doesn't mean squat and it sounds like you're throwing shade at me lol thanks to artifacts and generator mods and so on we can play how we want without being old fashioned like a copy paste person. Nice try but I already explained myself in another thread. People don't like to think outside the box and this isn't about doing elite content. You can definitely do your support role while doing more besides being that. Celestial healer BcM or McB allows you to heal your whole group while doing weapon damage. Don't come at me saying I'm a dps in support role when you clearly have something personal to say to me.

    Since this is a controller thread let's focus on that. You think you can do that? I already gave my input to dev72. What's yours? By the way, as a controller you do damage to an enemy whenever you use a debuff is that not doing DPS in support role? Exactly! You think just because I don't use tank arts that I'm a dps in support role? Ha funny! Solar amp max rank gives you empowered channeling which increases your defense. Is that not beneficial to the support role? It definitely is. The more defense the better. My neck mod is also a tank mod instead of giving it a dps mod. I can even give myself all neutral artifacts like that other person said, trans and strat helps both sides. I'm vocal on it but I see and understand why they use it and if I wanted to I could level them up. Would you still say I'm a dps in support role? Probably right because in YOUR view if I don't have tank arts I'm not really a support role. Pm me if you feel that strongly about me personally but thanks for that giggle. :)
  20. TheLorax 10000 Post Club

    This isn't personal in anyway but you just seem slightly confused as to what your purpose in game is. You said you aren't a DPS but you are.

    You spec completely for damage and then try to figure out what the best gimmicks are to make up for the fact that you skipped over the bulk of your support options.

    You've been very busy trying to find ways to avoid speccing into Resto as a Fire tank. Empowered Channeling mod? OMAC trinket health buff working as intended? Best allies for health and defense buff?

    DPSing in support role is not thinking outside of the box. People have been doing that for over a decade now and it's become old hat. So please feel free to play however you wish but don't advertise yourself as something you're not.

    And as for feedback I really wish they would reduce the amount of damage from combat abilities and weapon combos while in support stance.
    • Like x 5