Returning players aren't welcome back at all

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Offline, May 21, 2023.

  1. Proxystar #Perception

    Traitor to some, Hero to others.

    • Like x 3
  2. spikeat Well-Known Player

    This is a 10 year old MMO that has passed its peak, so there won't be a surge of new or returning players to worry about. Granting every player max arts, allies and sp does not mean a player will spend more time playing. What else is there left to do in the game if everything is given? If they want to speed up the progression, then they can choose the pay to win route and use the marketplace.

    SP aren't as important as they used to be after the devs made the adjustment. You can clearly see lots of feat related items and collections in the broker at a significantly reduce price that aren't selling. The new community just doesn't care about sp, no matter how easy it is to obtain.

    The bigger issue I have with new and returning players are how fast they get to end content. I'll share an example. Yesterday I queue into the new elite alert with my bare minimum tank cr388 80 arts 150sp and the group make up was 1-1-1-1. The dps was 412 with 200 art set, max allies, so I figured it will just take a little longer to complete with one dps, no big deal. But after 30 min we completed the alert (no wipes) and the 4 of us had about equal damage. We can no longer judge players skill level with sp, arts, cr, allies. I would've kicked this dps if I needed to run something else on another toon. How long has this dps been playing at this level? How has this dps have gotten this far? What needs to be changed? I'm not looking for an OP, elite or above average dps (or any other role), just a decent player is good enough for me in a queue. This is just one instance and there were many more. I'm sure others have experience this as well. If all players were decent enough in the queue then it would not only fix the OP's problem but the rest of the game.

    This is a MMO and it's only fun when you meet other players to play with. The devs have conditioned the new community to be in and out of an instance within 10 minutes. No one talks or communicate with each other anymore. In the past there were many obstacles and difficulties that made players bond by overcoming the adversities together. And with these new friends made the game fun. Now it's everyone for themselves.
  3. GermanFlame New Player

    I remember the Metal Gotham Solo Normal on my Playstation. It was hard for me to defeat Mirror Master. Normally I fly and burn the enemies. Not working, I died. After many trials I asked in league what to do and watched a Youtube Video. No flying, moving with R1+left/right, destroy the mirrors, then killing Mirror Master. Later Red Death at end was no problem.
    Before Playstation I played on Nintendo Switch. There I could do Metal Gotham Solo Event. Flying, attacking and killing Mirror Master in first trial, no problem. And you must do the Solo in Metal Gotham to get the weekly and daily quests there.
    Event Versions would be easier for players coming back, yes.
    • Like x 1
  4. Proxystar #Perception

    This is proven to be untrue as evidenced by artifacts, allies and augments.

    If this was correct (and it isn't) then everyone would simply be paying to build and level every artifact and ally day 1, every single time and every single one, but that actually isn't true, despite the option for complete purchase already being present and having been so for a long time now.

    When people do level these items they aren't typically paying to do it, it costs around $250USD they're mixing their money with play time, the few people that do level these things like whales are insignificant in the context of the games overall players that either spend very little at all, or mix between payment and play - but it does give greater options to a player wanting to either whale it entirely or significantly speed up the process.

    The same would apply for the feats, would there be some that people buy, certainly, but that would indicate something broken with that content if anything, if everyone is skipping it and would actually provide pretty decent feedback to the devs about future development.

    Outside of that, people would mix the purchasing of feats with playing for feats, because people are as frugal with their money as they are reckless, most people aren't just going to start buying every feat in the game, that's just simply scaremongering to facilitate your desire to gate keep.

    This here is realistically your true motivation for gate keeping and is a common sentiment expressed by many in the elite community you not only crave but clearly need there to be a distinction between yourself and the casuals, nothing is more horrible than you losing the ability to inspect someone or census check them so you can see how filthy they are to you by comparison.

    If someone can suddenly pay to at least "look good" you'll lose your ability to discriminate against them and then you'll have to actually discern whether a person is a good player through their actual game play and not their appearance, yes this is a very horrific nightmare inducing prospect indeed ;)
    • Like x 6
  5. Grim Fandango New Player

    There's nearly 50 "episodes" of the game, each loaded with a ridiculous number of feats, many of which have ridiculous requirements that no sane, healthy person can possibly hope to complete in a reasonable amount of time.

    I played when the game first came out, stopping around the time that the various Hard Light powers were introduced. I recently started playing again this February and have been steadily working on a single character; that's over four months. Being retired, I also have an exuberant amount of free time available, too. Despite that, there's just no way I'm going to get anywhere near 300 Skill Points in the foreseeable future, especially since I apparently missed out on all the advantages the people who've been playing the whole time had, like being able to run older content at your full combat ratings, or scoring all those sweet feat points that were easy when the content was still relevant, assuming they're even still available now at all like some of the anniversary drek.

    Also, I don't know why you people think feats from old content need to be sold. They should just straight up be given away for free when they get old enough and you've exceeded; like a full two tiers in the past.

    It's easy to say "tough" to returning players, but it's pretty much impossible for them to get anywhere near a so called "competent" level without spending a few years doing so. And guess what: Most people aren't going to spend a few years doing so. They'll be "well screw this" and quit the game, this time for good. Hell, I'm pretty much on the verge of doing that myself; the only reason I haven't is because I actually like playing dress-up with my character and, again being retired, I have tons of time available to just goof around.

    Catch-up mechanics exist in other games. For a reason. This one does not have any, even with the bump-to-CR-3whatever. Which you don't even need, as you can get there on your own after just a few weeks. Also, unlike most other games, this one doesn't just have feats that are bragging points; they have real, mechanical benefits that are all-but-required for end-game play.

    Skill Points are the real hurdle for returning players, followed closely with the ridiculous mechanics they have for artifacts and allies that pretty much require you to spend real money on if you want any chance of getting above a certain level.
    • Like x 2
  6. the solowing Unwavering Player

    In a sense, i can understand where he comes from. Players do like items that sets themselves apart.

    (If you came into a BattleGround with Shadowmourne, you are getting jumped because ITS SHADOWMOURNE)

    But making it abit easier to get coveted items from content not played as often and it works as a mark sink as well.
  7. Proxystar #Perception

    I agree, but only in so far as it's a time limited flex.

    Gatekeeping the items or content infinitely is counter productive to the wider interests of the game so as to only preserve that players sense of feeling special.

    That's why my compromise was sell feats after a certain time, the players that want to flex will continue to get them as quickly as possible even if they're sold because they care about ensuring we know how good they are.

    That same mentality is what drives people to farm bounties on the first day, rush to finish all the time capsule feats on the first day, despite them getting cheaper later and that same mentality will drive people to finish all the feats during relevancy despite being able to buy them later because crowing is what these roosters do and crowing is what roosters will always do ;)
    • Like x 4
  8. Offline Well-Known Player

    If you can't run ANY content - how are you loot-locked? And what's wrong with running Normal? You can run regular content until you get better arts, more SP and maybe a decent league or some friends, then move on to Elite. You know - when you're an "elite" player.


    Ask it says I had to play N. Even I know only last 3 episodes I 5hink get loot locked.

    As for your comment on playing until I get artis 3x200. Is that a joke?
    I played all day yesterday and my level 160 arti went from 160 and stayed at 160 level. It went up no level. Ao let's says 2 days per level so that's 40 days for one artifact level 200. Now another 200 days to get my other 2 artifacts to level 200?
    Do you think I'm going to play for 240 day to level 3 artifacts to level 200 just to play in elite?
  9. LowFlyingMoon Loyal Player

    Again - how will a returning player benefit from spending $100s on SP? The stat difference between - say - 300 and 500 SP is negligible and even unlocking that amount of SP on alts is prohibitively expensive for many. The leagues and groups that have a minimum SP requirement would raise those requirements, or make up new ones in order to avoid playing with less experienced players. Any benefit would be purely psychological and quickly negated once the buyer realizes, that they spent money on something that barely makes a difference and feels ripped off.

    So what figure would be fair? Especially, that many returning players, like the one who started this thread, don't seem to want to spend money on P2W systems already in place, that would give them actual benefits? How much money should a person have to spend in order to be able to smoothly return to the game?

    Artifacts, allies and augments are not dependent on gameplay. You can level them by farming the easiest content, all they require is time. Feats are tied to specific content. Without that incentive - that content might as well be removed altogether.

    100 SP for a new toon is huge. 100SP for a player with a few hundred already under their belt is practically nothing. And some of the feats given away in those skips have had a perceivable effect on popularity of T1 raids, for example. That cat is out of the bag, but that's no reason to make a lot of T2-5 content similarly deserted.

    It is my business, when getting a group for certain difficult feats is already next to impossible on my server, because vets, who already have them don't want to waste their time. Now everyone else will just buy those few feats and not bother with them either. I don't care about the SP, I have more than enough, having played for 11 months. I want things to do in this game and feats are the last thing that present some sort of challenge. I'd accept selling SP if there was any alternative, but if some other system were introduced, that would reflect player's progress, experience, or skill - some people would be demanding the option to buy that too.


    lol... What "lengths" am I going to? Making a post on a free forum? If that reflects the actual value of skill points, then they are indeed worthless. Having goals and incentives in a game has value and selling those works against the idea of the game being a game. You may not care, because you have most of the feats and probably would like the option of telling players asking for help with some of the more difficult ones to just go and buy them, instead of bothering you. Respectfully.
    • Like x 1
  10. Offline Well-Known Player

    especially for more difficult feats. There are also plenty of feats you can get in Omni PUGs, if you ask, or even by chance. And then there are countless solo feats.

    You think in the EU pugs are going to slow down sp you can do a feat?
    Went into phantom zone. 3 of us typed in chat. Don't destroy the turrets for feats.
    First turret right in front of us. The pug destroyed it on purposed. Ran up to it. Just murdered the turret so we couldn't do our feat.
  11. Offline Well-Known Player

    US or EU server?
  12. Offline Well-Known Player


    Do you not remember the game was all about clipping powers back in the day. I could clip powers all day long after I upgrade to a ps5. I've played every power. Clipped every power. Skill wad back in the day. Now people are spoon fed skill via 3x200 level artis.
  13. LowFlyingMoon Loyal Player

    Some will, some won't. Some players won't even understand you, due to language barrier.


    Yes, well - that happens. I didn't say you'll be able to get every feat with randos. Many feats are best done in a premade group. Many others are easy to get even without trying, or just require replaying stuff a bunch.

    I've returned to the game on a new account in summer last year, after 8 year absence and I PUGed for most of my time in the game. EU server, villain. Got hundreds of SP that way. Not saying it's easy or quick, but it's doable.
  14. Offline Well-Known Player

    Please don't tell me I don't know how it works. I worked this out on day 1. It still doesn't work. I queued the other day for nexus and necro. 30 minutes later Nothing. Still nothing. No queue no nothing. I had to give up on waiting for it.

    Omni raid Is useless. Players are asking on lfg for a full group to run omni raid. There isn't any random doing it. Its always a group. Omni raid is pointless.


    Omni raid should never have been allowed to run more than 2 players per group on joining the queue. It was suppose to help players? All it has helped it top players still play old content together.

    You say omni new players of the raid are given the chance to basically play it?
    Do you know the difference between playing a raid in dcuo as maxed put character vs playing a raid in dcuo and not knowing what to do?

    Do you think its fun for new players to say go into idk happiness home. Never played it before and the group disband because becauze some dont know the mechanics of the raid. Omni raid is useless. New player don't know the mechanics even if they play it 7 times. No matter what. There is always a prec dpa to kill everything before a noob figures out the raid.
  15. Offline Well-Known Player



    You're saying the dps is on par. No they're not.ci just again watched a gadgets dps wipe the floor in duo elite with precision. Because of how fast its powers is.
    Now if I tried that it doesn't work because earth has such a long power animation
  16. Offline Well-Known Player



    Get my own group, yeah? Well, I timed it rhe other day. It took me 2 hours to get 2 of 3 people to join for a feat. 2 hours and only 2 joined. You please explain it to me how I'm supposed to sit for 2 hours asking on lfg for the same thing when I've to wait 1 minute each time for posting.

    League recruitment section? I did that. I put a post on. Nothing. Looked at most of the other posts and they was all US leagues
    Hardly anything for the EU. Did find one and the post got bumped from like years ago. Pointless section again on the forums. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

    There's already thousands of dead leagues in dcuo. It doesn't need another one.
    The league buff stats killed new leagues being created off.
    Who's going to want to join a league with no buff stats and weak players? The joining players are goingt o join high ranked player leagues with the thought in mind they maybe able to run all content including elite.
  17. Dev72 Dedicated Player

    Double Art XP events are released a couple to a few times a year. Recommend saving your metal until then, especially for levels 160 to 200. Create a bank toon or two to save your metal. I have 5 bank toons for metal and exobites for augs....never have any issues or have to break the bank to level up anything, especially now that the seals are provided in the Dr. Fate vendor from the daily rewards.
  18. Cyclonic Dedicated Player

    That's why you grind old feats inbetween DLCs. When most players are done with the current one and have little to nothing left to gain from what is easy to form and popular... get what they become. More open minded about looking back and cleaning uo the old ones. Life will go on if you can't find a group to do X and Y because there is something more appealing at the moment. Tons of players need stuff back there and will happily assist you when they don't have more pressing things going on in-game.

    Do we need more incentive to go back there? Probably. Selling Skill points is not the answer.
  19. DuffleBagBoii Well-Known Player

    I dont see anything wrong with them selling 100 sp for 100$ or whatever price they choose. I have the money. Not because im rich but because i know how to budget & didn’t over extend my spendings in real life…. I cant understand why people who can afford to pay shouldn’t be able to. The game is 13 years old, getting people to run nexus 15 times till you get all the combos is a problem

    If you save $10 a month in a year youll have $120 that could buy you some sp … drop some pennies in the piggy bank
  20. LowFlyingMoon Loyal Player


    Or you could spend that $120 on something worthwhile and just carry on without those few SP, that - after a year of playing - won't make a perceivable difference anyway. Unless you really can't cope without that extra 1% health, or whatever.