Returning Player Take On DCUO "Is it worth it?"

(If you are a new or returning player asking of if the game is worth playing or returning back to, scroll the way down till you see dedicated sections for you. I suggest reading my specific pros and cons for yall before reading the thread.)

*cracks knuckles*

So..
With my January sub ending, and watching some Gordon Ramsey nightmare kitchen, I felt inspired to write a post giving my take on dcuo. Actually, more to it I notice that there have been a bunch of post lately of new/returning players asking about dcuo, only to be met with a reply "Pay a month and see how you feel", which I think is the most laziest answer I have seen. That is like asking someone how their day been and they say "good". If I was new or returning to a game, I want to know the Pros and Cons of the game lately. Whats changed? Hows the community? Gameplay? Updates? etc. Hoping that someone is willing to answer my questions, because the whole point of asking is..... ya know..... to not waste time and money. So I decided I will take on that challenge and try to give my absolute best take on the game from a neutral stand. Especially with the devs being generous to giving me a free sub.

What I would like to accomplish with this post is give my take on what I found as a "Pro" of the game and as an "Con". I don't know if Im going to be doing a straight Pro and Con list or mix in categories as I type, as I am going through the rough draft phase atm, but at least organize enough to where you can read it. Also, you will find a pattern in my list that I have listed some of the topics as a Pro and Con. From what you can guess, this feature TO ME is something I found that did good or helped the game but also at the same time hurt it. So be wary of that.


A brief story of my history here with dcuo, I started playing the game either the end of 2012 or beginning of 2013. The dlc before Home Turf. From then to now, I have learned how to play every role to its maximum potential, learned every power, become extremely good at pvp, witness a list of incredible players,leagues, witness youtubers achievement toward the community and the game, saw the ups and downs of the game, the shift of change in the game population and voices etc etc. Basically, I have been around for a good chunk of dcuo life span and as a player played every aspect the game has to offer. To many players the Stats Revamp was the breaking point for rather folks would give this game one last chance or drop it for good, as the game state before revamp was a huge mess that left many players feeling hopeless for years. After some time and many updates since then I think I have a clear transparency of whether your time as a player is worth continuing or not

Without further ado, lets get in to it!

The "DC Universe" Feel:
If there is one thing that this game gets right is the feel of you actually being in its universe. I feel this is something that is not credited as much as it should be. The main selling point of this game is you being apart of this universe, so if anything you need to nail this on the head. Playing more of the Earth 3 DLC and Riddler vs Joker DLC, I realize that the story play is really dope. Especially with Earth 3, the story actually is intense. I haven't "felt" that seriousness since Origin Crisis. That moment in earth 3 duo after you defeat Badman Luthor, then the gang shows up(trying to keep it somewhat spoiler free for new players), I bet some of you dc lovers were squealing like a school girl. I thought it was pretty dope too. And then the Riddler vs Joker dlc, isn't that somewhat related to a batman animated movie with Damien? I youtube dc clips here and there when in the mood, but that reference feel and storylines are good feelings. Dope thing that the devs are doing.

Content becoming more "accessible":
"Alright, dc feel is cool and all, but im a mmo player first. How is the content?". And heres where things fall short. Unlike Origin Crisis, you had engaging story + difficulty.... now take out the difficulty part. I asked former vets, current players, and even skimmed through the forums when it came to the game difficulty debates, and it has settled that the game is no where near as challenging as it use to be. For me as a player, a challenge is what I expect in mmos. Yes, dcuo is as casual as it gets when it comes to mmos, but this game started off with content whos difficulty level was so engaging it kept people on their toes. Solos, duos, and alerts, those are the places where difficulty can be whatevs right? But when it comes to raids, that is where dcuo should be spitting hot. Now we have downgraded to where normal raids are like baby event versions of themselves, and elite content is normal raids now.So no saying "If we want challenging content, go do elite raids" does not apply because elite is too easy, but then quick to turn your high tail and say "elite content should be accessible to lower skill ceiling of players." Statement like those truly show you're not wanting this game to benefit all players for the better and this is a problem because the devs are being influenced by this. I don't know how riddler dlc was at launch besides it being a broken mess i heard, but earth 3 dlc raids are no fun and an easy joke (including elite). The devs have been mentioning talks about improving on elite content but I will save that topic for later.

Quality of Life Added to the game:
"Do the devs really listen to the community?" Oh they listen alright. Its just how they implement things, they suck at. BUT lately we had some dope things. Does anybody remember this thread here?

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...please-remove-relevancy-windows.289527/page-2

I think this thread influence Artifacts, yea? What about finally being able to add how many skill points we want in one go? You remember we had to go by 1 over and Over and OVER! That sucked! Oh yea, what about items in our inventory got increased to 99(or is it 999?) Either way, the devs have implemented some great quality of life updates to this game that many players have been asking for years. Some ideas original, some ideas inspired from us the community. Along with the recent update patch that adds in a new scorecard, auto sort, na na na na, etc. This is stuff that should be credited to devs no matter what side you split on. And with the ps3 players gone, more quality of life updates can be added to the future(wishful thinking to those who expecting a full graphic overhaul of the game).

"We never promised updates":
This is where I start to get heated as a player, as a customer, and as a person. The things these devs do, and the community is at fault too but ima explain that later, but the things that are said makes me scratch my head how yall are still in business. This past month or two, in December, we're wrapping up 2017 and preparing for the new road that 2018 will provide. December is coming close to an end and people are starting to question "Hey, are we getting like a roadmap for the game anytime soon?" Usually every year before then the devs would give a livestream or lil hint drops on what they have planned for the game with no specific dates. This caused a big deal in the forums and many people speculating whats going on and many people backing the devs on why they don't need to tell us anything(ima get on yall later), so people are worried. Notice, this is in December, so folks go on vacation and I completely understand that, but eventually the community manager replies to a thread asking about that saying and I paraphrase "We never promised to give a road map update".This is the most pettiest thing that the devs have ever done to the community, and to add insult to injury, afterwards they did a livestream of a new time capsule tho......

For any game, no matter how big or small, if theres anything a game developer owes you out of courtesy as a customer, it is future plans of what lies ahead of said game. You mean to tell me your surprised by people being upset that you guys as a dev team couldn't make out on something you promised? Well damn, yall are something. People being upset about water not being the next power worked on or being released, you tell them to go kick rocks, but professionally. Yall never promised to work on that or that being the next power, that is something the community got behind to where it became a cult, and because yall never said anything about working on that, people get their feelings hurt aka upset. That shouldn't affect how you guys interact with the community with updates. For things that you guys promised on doing but didn't go through. Please, fall out back on a chair and get over it. Saying "because we like to see people excited for announcements"..... I mean im not stupid.

"but Ringz, you said it yourself, its a courtesy. It is not mandatory for them to give us an update" Welp you're right and you're gonna end up with results like this.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/activisions-destiny-2-is-struggling-right-now-cowen-analyst.html
video is here:

Im sure we're all familiar with the Destiny 2 fiasco right? This is an recent article from CNBC detailing how an wall street analyst sent a note to Destiny 2 higher ups basically saying "Destiny 2 is not in a good place". And below you find key notes on whats been contributing to Destiny 2 downfall and whaddya know with number 4? Its not rocket science boys and girls, if its not alright for other companies to do it to other games then it is not alright here.

And heres another example. You do not have to read everything, scroll for next text.

https://www.absolvergame.com/forums/discussion/25817/absolver-production-update

This is from the indie team company SloClap, or known for their game Absolver. From the beginning these guys tell you they are a small team. They also admit that they "Don't want to make promises they can't keep" but in doing so also gives a list on things they are aware of and want to improve on. This is how you talk to your community. Saying "we have nothing that are set in plans yet... here some gifts" does not count as a roadmap. Im close to blacken out ranting but I hope my point is clear. This is a very important con that should not be taken lightly from anybody.

Progression is useless:
Another component that I do not understand is the progression system of this game currently. This includes gearing, modding, and sp collecting. I recently been playing Monster Hunter World, and it strucks me how a game that is clearly demanding for you to grind makes it feel so natural and it never forces me. I want to get better gear, items, weapons etc. This is something that dcuo has lost slowly but surely. People can hate on Origin Crisis all they want, but there is no denying the thrill that dlc offered when it required you get better hear, stats, but it didn't force you, its because you wanted too. Everybody and their mamas thought they could walk straight into nexus or dox and think they were the hot s+++ and can beat it, and we're also talking of a time I consider the playerbase to be more skilled. People were hit with a reality check when they found out punishing those raids were without you gearing up first. THAT IS HOW YOU MAKE STATS MATTER. What is going on now is a complete joke. If you can reach min cr, you can complete most content day 1 with the lowest of gear. Along with no point in modding.

Speaking of modding, it stuns me how you demand so much for a mod but yet get so little in return. This is a known fact to even the community manager admits modding can use some work.

For one, this is something you could've easily added to your road map of things "we as a dcuo staff" are aware of and need to fix. That would've helped your case ALOT. If content doesn't demand it, and people do not feel they are getting stronger. You lose people on the longevity plan for a dlc. If people feel they are done with the content, then they are done. Theres no point in telling people "Did you complete all the feats? Do you have a full set of elite gear? Did you have a full set of mods? Then no your not done."........... *sigh* Progression should happen naturally. You never force people to progress just for the sake of progressing. If your elite content is being completed day 1 with min cr then there is a problem with you design.

Long Live Loot Boxes:
What? Because its Taboo around here, I shouldn't speak about it? Heres my deal with micro-transactions and loot boxes. I don't care about them as long as the game itself is solid. You make your game function first then you can do all that extra money grabbing stuff. Do I think there needs to be regulations yea but blah blah blah.

Look, you guys been dealing with your new "Time Capsule" system since 2016 AF3. What have you done to improve this system to at least trick people to be alright with it? Drop rates? Quark Vendor? Soon to be Marketplace??? I used to play a mmo fighting game called "Rumbler Fighter" wayyy back in 2009.

These guys had a loot box system to where they too would release exclusive scrolls(scrolls were your way of equipping a fighting style. Same as weapons in dcuo). Thats right folks, loot boxes are nothing new. Have been around in Asia since mid 2000s and been around in america since then too. What the company for this game would do is; After 6 months-1year since the exclusive loot boxes release, they would allow folks to buy it from the marketplace then and these loot boxes were a HIT! Now regular loot boxes you have a chance to win something, this game step it up a notch and force you to get collect collections.I mean yall know what yall doing, so no need for me to continue with this topic. Your losing players because of this, and all I can say is there have been many threads giving you guys free ideas on how you can implement this system better.

Also, just to say. I don't feel not one bit sorry for those folks who got banned, but if your gonna let something that can hurt you stay "available" for almost more than a year, especially when you been told of it..... I can't give sympathy to you either.

PVP:
LOL

CLOSE TO AN END:

We're getting close to the end of my post, and if you haven't notice, the cons and starting to out weigh the pros. From a neutral standpoint I simply cant think of anything, but I have 1 last set of Pros and Cons I would like to end with and these are the ones I feel were the make it and break it to me aka IMPORTANT.

BEST PRO: GAME COMBAT IS FINALLY AN ACCEPTABLE IMBALANCE(for now):
What the hell does this even mean if you read this. Now hear me out. I still believe that there is work to be finish, but as of right now this is the best imbalance that we have seen in a long time. Im talking about away from a forced loadout, forced spec, forced weapon to use(to an extent). Yes there are weapons that needs balancing, yes PftT spec is annoying as duck, but if you think back all the way since wm started, things are getting "iight". I said this in a video I made for the dcuo community regarding post stats revamp and my opinions on the game. I said the dev team need to make sure from there on everything is positive updates on top of positives. For now its acceptable, Im hearing people saying they can make mental work, hard light chainsaw is still missing hits, fire missing hits. Theres work to be done, yes. But freedom wise it feels nice again.

WORST CON: DCUO COMMUNITY:
Surprise Surprise.. Ya know..... 2 months after the Revamp is when I took a break, I still kept up with the forums and friends ingame. And I had a realization but I wasn't sure. After the free membership, talking with ingame players again, reading forums, understanding the game current state. I can safely say the biggest thing hurting this game, is us. You, Me, Forumers, and In game players aka The Community. Now ingame folks are their own breed, but I expect more from forum goers who at least have some inside knowledge of things. To sum everything up all I will say is, the people who left the game, that were fighting for this game for the better, all must truly be gone because now this game is left with the folks who opposed. For something you think that is common sense such as, power and weapon balance, masteries imbalance, pvp, content difficult. There is truly someone who is ready to oppose the OP of that thread no matter the topic, thus along comes more people of the same nature. I have read replies of people talking on topics for example; on why some masteries dont deserve to be better than others, why people should get off the devs back when voicing their concerns, why content should accessible, why you should accept what you got. I have been apart of many mmo communities since way back in runescape, and I can safely feel that DCUO has the most luckiest community in the entire world. Never have I seen people accept whats been done to them, lower their standards, intentionally trying to get threads locked because the OP was voicing an opinion opposing the game. This is the only game. And I feel with a community such as this, with the way content structure is going to be, time capsules..... This game is not going to get better. This game will stay the same till its grave. All because of a community, who aren't willing to fight for the better except more than likely to lower their standards due to this being their precious game.


If the destiny community can make a huge impact to let their dev team know they don't like the game state, why can't we?

And with that being said. Is this game worth it for me to continue playing? I think its time to bury this forever. I have warn of this game that there will be others that will take its place. So far I found a game thats satisfies my need for pvp, and a game recently that satisfies my need for pve. If dcuo can do something BIG, then I'd come back, and its gonna take much more than just "superman death", but for now with the lineup of 2018... I think ima need the extra storage space.

Well.. I am done. If you really read through this all, Thank you. Definitely open to all opinions, but I want to say. I recommend fully, to make your own post, rather you like the game or not and explain. People have done it in the past with prevail, sometimes the devs listen, sometimes not. 2018 is going to be a very good year for games and especially mmos for both consoles and pc, and I guess im ready to enter the list of players kicking the bucket here.

Happy Hunting, See you at the next Tournament, 3x if you let me, Goodnight and Goodluck. Happy gaming forever yall.

TLDR:

GO READ A BOOK!

If you are a New, you will like:
Game has amazing combat system.
The character customazation is the best.
Free movement of your character.
The "DC WORLD" feel is real.
Very casual mmo, works well with playing other games.

If you are a returning player before Stats Revamp:
Game Combat is milestones better than weapon mastery and AMs era, but there is a new meta.
Qulity of Life added to the game.
Not much of challenging content.
You will reach endgame quick and will reach that "burnout point"
Pvp is in another era of imbalance. PftT is your enemy(unless you like to cheese).
Collection ginding and time capsules will probably put you off.

Does the switch target button still select objects when enemy NPCs are within range????? if yes, NO. Combat is still clumsily awful since 2011. If yes, Not expecting auto target to have been improved.

.....recalling the number of times i would try to pick up an orange heal barrel and not being able to pick it up....

...is there any reason to target an object? shoot a heal barrel from a distance? when would targeting an object be useful and strategically beneficial??

...ponders if no time spent on making a PS3 version of the game, will the game improve? quality updates? UI project? Role tutorial in game? or haul ash down the road of the uncommunicated trajectory that is more instances in the vertical progression CR thang?

Nice thread idea and presentation (the actual info is very opinionated...but whatever it's your thread). Hopefully it cuts down on the weekly "returning player, should I stay or go?" threads...in a positive way.

+1

*goes back to playing Lego Star Wars The Complete Saga*

I think DCUo could benefit from offering the players a UI menu for LFG that does... essentially the same as this: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Looking_For_Group

Keep in mind LFG chat is still also available. It's merely an added UI menu with filters from selections from drop down menu boxes... an interactive pdf, more or less.

except DCUO has two factions and GW2 has no factions... they still have named servers... and RVRVR/WvW maps for 1 of 2 pvp modes. I'm not saying copy and paste the code after having lunch with them at game developers conference or anything like that... someone can reproduce it, right? While your at it, copy and paste KickBot from warframe , warframe , warframe too.

Your opinion is strong and kudos for putting it out there..

My observation of the forum community is very different to yours. The negative views of the game, the constant criticising of it far outweighs the people who like it and what is worse, this constant putting down of the game is actually seen as a good thing, I mean things like demands/ultimatums/tantrums... we have threads full of ideas and/or misconceptions that people eat up but no thought to consequence for the game & those that point out those consequences or do not agree and automatically join in the constant critiquing are treated like dirt

hmmmmm, pondering RVR maps for DCUO.
DC with two factions.... for some odd reason and then adding suicide squad/task force x. GW2 with 1 faction, with instance pvp TDM and open map RvRvR, three servers attack each others cpature locations on a large map... ZERGing.

Mentor selection only effects the rank 30 end story mission, and a level 15 mission... this is a lego game.... parts available since launch that were associated with each different game designer decision.... Rare vendor? put vendor items on it that are more expensive than the already available vendor items in game. Our UI is already superb, let users spend currency they can make at a limited rate. RNG, feats, great game design decisions. Throw in the seasonal content that was last made for inclusion of AM and WM without altering the seasonal content. woohoo! Autopilot... IP contract/asset sold to... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus_Nova 0o will it last?

And now they're outside ready to bust
It looks like you might be one of us (twenty one pilots: Heathens (from Suicide Squad: The Album))
*
hmmmmm. Sucker for Pain - Lil Wayne, Wiz Khalifa & Imagine Dragons w/ Logic & Ty Dolla $ign ft X Ambassadors

The community is one of the most toxic of any mmo, WoW included. Just because chat is there, does not mean you have to use it...constantly...for nonsense.... ppl drop out of raids like crazy, it is bad. However, idiots are avoidable. Annoying, but avoidable. Not 100% of the time, but there are also good ppl in DCU, something nobody talks about.

Dev work is by far the worst con. WoW's community is far more toxic than DCU, but they also have far more players and meaningful updates. If the devs "Suck" at implementing things, are they really listening? There was an old thread (That got deleted which furthers illustrates their inability to listen) asking for combat pets. They gave us a base pet....Just one example.

If you ask for an orange, and ya get a cactus, did they really listen? If you ask for a bull-pin, and they shoot you with a bull-let, did they really listen?

You are making the classic mistake of confusing the word Listening with Obeying or Acquiescing to demands or suggestions. They listen just fine, they just don't always agree with what the vocal few claim they want. Just because it seems a good idea in your head and others in here agree does not automatically make it a good idea. Nor does it mean it is feasible. Also, some ideas, while actually good, don't ever seem to take into account that this is a for profit company being run by an investment company...that the Developers aren't in charge of all the decisions that players blame them for.

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On to the original topic: The OP wants to dismiss the advice that most give (to try it for themselves) as if it were actually bad advice. At the end of the day, only YOU, the individual can decide whether or not it's worth coming back to the game. If the game had made the kind of dramatic change they're looking for, they would know immediately and wouldn't have to ask the question.

A lot of these returning players (not all, but a lot) are asking the question so that they can pretend to be interested in coming back, but it's actually a ruse to start yet another thinly disguised "DCUO is crap" thread. You can EASILY see this by the deliberate antagonistic language they use (p2w, cash grab, stupid decisions, outdated graphics etc...).

A quick glance at the topics on the first page can tell you whether or not things have changed...so asking the question reeks of Trojan Horse attack...especially when it's forum/game vets that know how things were when they last played. It's easy to give a pass to players that have been gone for at least two years or more. But if you left at the start of Time Capsules or when Stats Matter finally dropped, you cannot possibly think anything would have changed in that short amount of time.

The kind of advice that people would get is going to be heavily biased...and the people with an ax to grind (particularly the ones NOT currently playing the game) tend to be the loudest. You can't complain that the population is lower than it's ever been while ACTIVELY telling people "don't play the game/stay away". This is why telling people to try it out for themselves and make up their own mind is the best advice. Everyone has a brain of their own, and they come to their own conclusions.

On a forum, you do not automatically anything, everything you post is by your own choice and every topic you make a stand on is your own decision not some automatic grouping. If people are putting you in a category its due to the things you post, not auto. Certain people make what could be 1 page threads into 14 page threads by needlessly arguing with people who will-fully or otherwise will not change their minds. Then turn around and act like they are doing it for the good of the community (patronising). How many of those threads result in the OP or any of those supporting the OP changing their misconceptions? Rarely, and if anything all they do is fuel more conspiracy and mistrust. If the thread is a fire, those that go around 'correcting' people in every single thread are just kindling, making misinformation more visible rather than fall into page 2 obscurity, giving attention and a voice to the very people they oppose.

Lastly the community is not a Monolith, whenever certain people comment on the community they say things like

'You asked for X and now its gone you're complaining'

Well no, no I didn't actually, and probably neither did the person you are responding to, but because people see the community as a Monolith everyone can be the thing you need them to be to make the point you are trying to make.

And no I am not one of those negative people, I actually support the game mostly, just dislike the way self-righteous people behave on the forum. There are many agreeable people I highly respect and whom I think show support/react to critisism in the right way (Jafin for example), but far too many are just egotists.

To use your example..

1 Thread asking for combat pets.. when we have a fair few already vs people asking for Base pets for a long time, back when we didn't have any, is the devs not listening ? iirc people asked for Krypto since we got bases - noone has ever complained about Krypto.. in fact I am betting most ppl think it was an awesome addition - especially since it was not hidden in RNG etc

Thank you for this post Ringz, i hope that DCUO step their game up and people like you stick around.
Cya bud

First things first, you need a hug. Every thread the same ol, miserable, confrontational, angry. Nothing the OP said alluded to a "Taking a shot at DCU thread." I actually think he gave DCU too much credit.

Now, as for me confusing obeying with listening. If you roll up into McDonald's and order a burger, they could give you a skunk because you confused obeying with listening....come on now lol. This is a contrarian stance (As usual...).

Healthy games brag of their population and subs, not hide it.

He is not a combat pet, that thread was specifically for combat pets, Glad the base ppl are happy.

Recently sold my ps4 and have no plans to get another system in the immediate future, haven’t played dcuo since the time capsules dropped. I check the forum every so often and today I am glad I did. Fantastic post and enjoyable read, summed up my thoughts for the most part. For me, sp in time capsules was the last straw.....everyone has their breaking point and that was mine. My wife and I still reminisce about good times we had playing this prior to the capsules being released and reminding us that this game would never be fun as long as greed was the main concern of the people in charge, but whatever. Good post.

And yes, this community is trash. Read any thread and see the same people with the same snarky, idiotic replies to honest questions. It’s always the no life, usual suspects that sit in game and bash player skill whilst posting 100 times a day to every thread here. Just horrible people.

DCUO is a big [insert another game here] waiting room where u log in and abuse silly bugs (mostly in pvp) due to balance team lazyness

DCUO is not suppose to be your main game! if it is .. well u got a serious problem managing ur own money! and this makes sense too cause ppl claiming they cant live without dc are usually the one that has invested sooooo much money in the game that they cant go back now ... they are stuck ..forever... thats sad ...honestly

wait im not even sure there's a balance tem in this game what am i talking about

I'm not sure about that. Sure, you'll get games/devs talking about how many players have registered or a max number of players on at one time, or even how many characters have been created in their game. But actual population numbers? That's still pretty rare to see from game companies, namely because it's something that can (and will) be used against them by disgruntled players who have an axe to grind.

The only time I can think of a company releasing their population numbers was with WoW, and even they got bit by it. When there was a downtrend in their population numbers, you had all sorts of speculation articles showing up on gaming sites asking whether or not that might mean the end of WoW and its dominance. I can only imagine what was happening in their forums at the time.

You'll get PR releases that will show the game in a positive light, no doubt about it. But the actual population releases are few and far between, and not releasing those numbers is something that's carried over to Daybreak from their SOE days.