Renown Earning Logic

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Prindacerk, Feb 4, 2023.

  1. BumblingB I got better.

    If I remember right, the only Traces you could get from a tunnel was the legs off either the crawler or baller one, which also was in the last boss of Nexus. All the rest required you to have at least one boss up at the end to get the best gear. Where on the PS, players were glitching which caused the developers to do something to make it harder for the PC side.

    OC was a mess. It had a great concept that was destroyed by a significant number of issues.
  2. Proxystar #Perception

    You couldn't even get BiS rings unless you had Ravager out.

    And gear, (specifically Chest, Head and I think another piece) were omitted from the loot table entirely for almost the entire duration of the DLC.

    I'm fairly sure the legs only dropped in Nexus, but I could be wrong, your memory might be better than mine, I just don't remember ever getting those from Dox.

    What you are right about though is that I think the raid in itself, despite being fun at the time if you were in a good group was in many respects also a hot train wreck.

    The community was heavily, heavily, heavily divided between those that could beat Paradox and those that couldn't and it resulted in those that couldn't leaving the game. It sends the perfect warning to finding that right balance between difficulty in content.
  3. BumblingB I got better.

    It really wasn't the balance, it was a massive wall for progression. You couldn't advance your character without traces gear, but the only way to get it was to do the raid without closing a tunnel. Vendor gear was the same as blue drops. The content 's damage was extreme and I'm not talking just the raids. Even the clamped iconic anomalies could hardly be played due to the damage. It pushed away so many people..some came back during Sons of Trigon, but it really wasn't until WotLp1 came out that we were able to do EO post nerf.

    In the end, Spytle and the team listened to a small portion of the vocal community and made way too difficult content because up to that point it was fairly easy to do by the hardcore players when the average or casual players actually struggled with Prime all through T4 and don't get me started on Tala's clown raid after it was instanced.

    I know you and a lot of rose tented glasses players disagree with me, but OC was the worst DLC made. The only good thing it had was the amount of content it had and Quantum power. Battle for the Earth was 10x better with content and the difficulty. But I digress.
    • Like x 1
  4. Proxystar #Perception

    You'd be surprised with respect to OC, despite the fact I was in groups that did the Paradox Speed feat Pre-Nerf and during relevancy I don't actually think it was the best DLC at all, I agree with you that people frequently look at OC with rose tinted glasses, it's the nostalgia of the game being in a very younger and livelier state that people look back on fondly I think and then mistake that with a view that Origin Crisis was the best DLC.

    During that recent "best episode survey" I actually voted for Battle for Earth and Justice League Dark for the best episodes because I genuinely felt they were better episodes and they didn't cause that same fracturing within the player base between the "haves" and "have nots"

    Not only does "gating the content" cause discontent in the playerbase, but so does gating items behind the hardest content, I know there needs to be exclusive reward for beating the hardest content in the game, but we have to be extremely careful I think about what those rewards are and how far they go, because that was one of the biggest mistakes OC made that caused player exodus.

    I will tell you what else changed when OC came out as well, the game became the "range fest" that it is today, prior to that you could typically get away with melee fighting most content to a heavy degree without massive negative consequences, but when OC came out everything changed and it literally became dangerous overnight to be a lantern unless you were doing the made range rifle grenade clip spam. The structure around how the game felt just changed over night.

    The other change you've not included, which thankfully you've raised the iconic anomalies was the fact that we then got lumped with "PVE not takes into account RPS" whereas prior to that, RPS was ignored in PVE.

    It wasn't that the instances did insane damage, well perhaps they did a tad, but more importantly it was because players, who had been ignoring RPS the previous day were suddenly dumped with the experience of "no you will comply"

    So the moment you started actually lunging, actually blocking, actually block breaking all this stuff became much, much easier. I know this because it's what happened to me, because prior to that I just ignored it as well. I wasn't a tank back then either so I had less interest to care and those iconic solos were a nightmare that made me rage until a friend of mine at the time told me "hey man you need to do the counters then it's easy", so I did and the rest is history.

    In short though I do typically actually agree, I think OC in as many positives as it brought also brought a raft of negatives that fractured the community that existed in this game prior, they basically ripped the training wheels off overnight and then handed everyone a band aid :D
  5. BumblingB I got better.

    The mentality of the players changed too. It was no longer burn everything to the ground, the concept of single target and multi target became abundant. When Electric came out, it was top because it could melt a hallway, like in Gates, to allow you to get through easier, but it couldn't do the burn in the boss rooms due to splitting. So someone came up with a clipping rotation for light and it took king slot, followed by Quantum 3 troll runs. Which was a joke and way unnecessary. It also brought the phase dodge movement to the limelight and it really hasn't stepped out of it.

    OC started a path of damage that the game really has not recovered from and I'm sure they didn't really want to go to.

    You are talking about Match NPCs that Spytle kept trying to say was in the game from the beginning, when we all know was a load of BS. That whole system has never worked right. They still cheat. You can get block broken or interrupted by the NPC's feint. Certain weapons on them still tap Block Break. It's a mess. At least now we can breakout of the counter, where you couldn't before. It's not better, they just bandaided it.

    Oh and FYI, the Iconic Anomalies were not really a problem on countering. Especially the Bizarro one, as you could easily interrupt. The problem with them is how much damage you can take from the random trash adds and turrets and so on. You had a crappy soder and nothing to help keep you alive. The enemies just did too much damage. So players resorted to cheating. I know I used to fly up and fight the mech in the ducts to just avoid the turrets. I should not have had to, it's not a hard fight, but the damage was just too much to do it straight. They did fix them like 2 times. (Lowered it and lowered it again, IIRC.)

    BTW, Match NPCs were introduced in Game Update 18 in September 2012. Players were frustrated fighting them since then, so you are telling me you have been ignoring the counter mechanics in PvE for 8 months? :p
    • Like x 1
  6. Proxystar #Perception

    Haha, all I'm saying it's that's the point in time I took combat countering a whole heap more seriously :D

    In terms of the solos, I forgot about that first Bizarro boss you're probably right, that one hit a bit too hard because of other stuff in the room, as long as you killed it first though then played mechanics you were ok, although I know players did take the robot up into the rafters to fight.

    The other bosses generally didn't pose an issue if you countered.

    I think the biggest issue too was that it forced players to play iconic characters they probably hadnt before or use weapons they hadn't used before so there was a lot of unfamiliarity.

    Im not sure it necessarily wasnt a direction they wanted to go, but I do think they'd overestimated the abilities of the majority of their playerbase who weren't in this game for the hardcore MMO experience.
  7. BumblingB I got better.

    Which goes back to my comment about listening to the small vocal minority that wanted harder content. It didn't help that day one the hardest feat in the game had an exploit that they fixed by just grounding everyone, instead of lowering the ceiling. To this day, the worst mechanic to add difficulty they have added is the grounding effect. Then we get entire raids that use it. (Legion and JLD, I'm looking at you.) Terrible mechanic. If I wanted to do that kind of gameplay, I'd go back to Guild Wars 2. I'm in a super hero game. You can't tell me I can't run/fly/jump.
    • Like x 1
  8. Proxystar #Perception

    I think at times they still do listen too much to the elite minority in this game, I personally think for example elite+ content is a waste of resources.

    I personally think elite content in general can end up to difficult generally speaking, but not always when the developers listen to the wrong players (it's also not that they're wrong players, but I call them that for lack of a better term, hope you know what I mean)

    Whenever there's content that requires 3 tanks, or content requires grey range tanking or for that matter if content has burn checks forcing groups to stack DPS then there's probably a reasonably good chance something has gone wrong and an "elitist player" has had input in the content lol

    One of them will probably be in here to flame me for even saying this very shortly :p

    I agree with you about flight by the way, I think it's partly why flight players get all angry with speedsters sometimes because there are times when flights advantage is stripped from them and other times it's not, honestly is it any surprise they're angry.

    The reality is the developers need to build mechanics that address people flying rather than just grounding them, that's off course with the usual caveat that sometimes it's actually smart not to fly even if you can :D
    • Like x 1
  9. BumblingB I got better.

    I actually think the whole Elite system really was treated poorly starting from the name. The concept of "Elite" is a negative connotation and it was added because a certain Creative Director was ******** that players were whining about difficulty and could recover from near wipe encounters in his live streams.

    And yes, we don't need more than 2 versions of an instance. Elite adds more mechanics, but Elite+ is when it adds way too much mechanics compounded with damage. I think they need to rethink this system.

    Remember the Trigun fight in Unholy Matrimony? Yeah, I remember jumping too high and getting one shot by the imps. #sobatmansentyouin #goodtimes
    • Like x 2
  10. Proxystar #Perception

    It is yea, the name in and of itself fuels and fosters toxicity and elitism.