[PvP Tournament] - DCUO US 4v4 Champions

Can't have analogy only go half way. You want 1-1-1-1 which would means every person on the team has unique rules. Yes, in sports there can be someone like goalie or quarterback or pitcher who has some special rules. That is not 1-1-1-1.
There is no sport where every person on the field has unique rules. Applying your sport analogy to DCUO would be more like having a tournament with 3 dps used per team with only 1 special character available for each team. Sounds like fun, right?
I still think that even defender, midfielder and forward idea makes more sense than the analogy you try to create with goalie. There are more defensive group sustain oriented roles and then more objective related (goal / kill someone) oriented roles. Being a healer does not mean different rules apply to me. Just means i have different role to play. In "sports analogy terms" i would be saying as a healer i'm just a defender trying to keep the opponent from reaching their objective.

That's all fine and dandy what you're saying but, my idea behind the 1-1-1-1 suggestion was the quadrinity/trinity concept with which this game's core combat system is designed on so that at the very least, there's some consistency and reasoning behind it. Again, the point I was making was that specialized roles should be limited.

I don't want to keep arguing in here as this thread is for Kody's tournament. If you'd like, we can continue this elsewhere but, I'm sure it will just lead to the old "agree to disagree thing".

Have a good day/night!

Not valid at all tbh.
Counter metas by either switching your role/power/create an alt. Its been like that since DCUO came out btw. If DPS role is really balanced technically everyone has an "out" also. Enforced 1-tank meta would require power-tokens too.

Fixed.

Might be pushing the tourny back from 4:30 est up to 8 PM EST, let me know if this conflicts with any of the PARTICIPANTS schedules.

Oh I would love that man. That works out better for me actually.

Time changed to 8 PM EST.

I'm curious about something. Shield is banned because a couple of its combos, according to some, do to much damage, but on the same chart that shows this Handblasters has a few combos that do to much damage as well. So why is it not banned?

You are right, a few of the handblasters combos are hitting too hard. However, handblaster is not much of a problem because handblaster's fist slam is AOE and can be easily blocked/screen blocked. The problem is that shield's tap hold non-mastery can be executed faster than handblaster's uppercut mastery and do similar, potentially more, burst damage. Non-mastery combos should not compare to Mastery combos. Shield is clearly broken to a larger extent and will remain banned until it is fixed.

Kody that's not really true, HB is just as good as Shield and not just because of the Tap-Hold..

The AoE Interrupt is used to do exactly that, not the go-to main damage dealer, which is the uppercut.
If anything, HB is probably better overall for bigger team matches exactly because of that.

It's hard to really determine which is better because of Shield's single target Tap-Hold, but its easy to determine both are just as viable.
If you ban one you should consider banning the other, even if it's uncomfortable for certain people.
(Then again, the way I see it.. both teams have the tools available to them, might as well use them.. these aren't as game breaking as Mental or HL spam Dps-wise)

I never understood how shield was ban. Shield 1 tap hold is powerful they say, but so is hb 2 tap hold. Imo i think the tournament shoyld be atleast after the second phase of pvp changes, but i understand how the pc vs ps competitive bug is an itch that has to be scratched

Nobody is going to viably use handblasters fist slam as a source of focus fire single target damage...

No, they use it to get a counter to survive, and then utilize Uppercut, another extremely good single target move.

I'm actually not for banning HB just so we're clear, I just think you should allow Shield as well.

I cant use a controller for the life of me, But I don't think even the best players can utilize HB with a controller as well as a mouse and keyboard.
(Not claiming this as a fact, Just my personal experience.. which is sorely lacking.)

Can you show me this chart? Or provide mathematical, picture/video proof please?

There's a reason shield is banned in most scrims on live.

The damage from shield's 5 tap can 1-shot you from ~45% health. Handblasters cannot. There have been zero reported cases from getting 1-shot by uppercut. Usually uppercut kills after you counter your opponent and if they don't have the break out trinket.

Every combo from shield is hitting hard, not just the tap-hold. To put it simply, there is too much safe damage with the taps, the reward/risk ratio is not on par with the number of taps/combo dmg. Even upheaval doesn't have the same amount of safe damage as shield. The damage from shield is also a lot harder to heal than the burst from handblasters. Spoken from personal experience.

That being said, shield IS fixed on test. But I think the tournament rules are set at this point.

GLHF!

I'd appreciate it if we could get an ETA on GU57 so Shield being OP would be a thing of the past. On test GU58 has already been implemented.

My chart states that Fist Slam and Uppercut from HB are hitting to hard as well as Shield's Spinning Upslash & Overhead Plate Smash . I don't distinguish the % of reduction needed on the chart to balance these attacks. I will for you here.

Spinning Upslash & Overhead Plate Smash needed roughly a 50% reduction in damage to bring it in line with other attacks that take the same amount of time to execute. Currently on Test this has been applied.

Fist Slam, Fist Slam Mastery, and Uppercut Mastery needed roughly a 15% reduction in damage to bring it in line with other attacks that take the same amount of time to execute. Currently on Test this has not been applied unfortunately.

Big difference between something needing a 50% reduction in damage and 15%. That is why Shield is frowned upon and not HB's.



Worth noting they did fix HB's lunge which is nice. No more of that non-sense...but they didn't fix MA's sadly and MA now has the most ridiculous lunge in the game (hitting for up to 3.5k at base entry stats in Arenas).

According to the chart, shields overhead smash has as much Dps as Handblasters uppercut.

Compared to hb, how hard was shield hitting? Comparing shield 2 tap and shield 5 tap? This is just my opinion. Everything safe and op should be banned. Not one without the other, because then it seem like favoritism.

This is a domino effect to me. The 5 tap is now op because it take 5 taps to be countered now. I don't how hard shield 5 tap hit compared to hb 2 tap tap for tap, but shield 5 tap is considered op because it hits to hard. The risk vs reward was taken out because of the change. If im wrong please correct me. Did shield get a buff?

This argument is kind of silly, you only have two viable weapons to choose from at this point and you're banning one of them. I don't understand why there's even a need to put them in a different light.

If you ban Shield everyone will likely use HB, if you banned HB everyone would likely use Shield. If you ban both people will have a more diverse options, and if you ban none people will choose one of the two.

15% or 50% is irrelevant when the point is both are over-performing.
(Tho I don't even agree it boils down to these numbers either, and you know it.. HB is by far better for survivablity..)

Also, Derp, all the mathematical proof you need is in the chart provided by Brice.
And the definition of "1 shot" is only needing one shot to kill someone, you do not "1 shot" a person once they're at 45%, haha.
(Something that btw is not possible anyways, I would ask you for mathematical/pic proof, but I don't want to play your games.)