PVP Season 3 Concerns

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Sodam Yat, Jun 19, 2014.

  1. Sodam Yat Dedicated Player

    Lemme start by saying that I am actually looking forward to how Season 3 sounds, the way it was explained was that the devs are trying to get PVP Arenas back to being a fast-paced multi-KO extravaganza, and that sounds awesome to me.

    My main concern though is not with group PVP (4v4, 5v5, 8v8) but instead with singular/double PVP Arenas (1v1 mostly, 2v2s too). From the 3 major changes coming im struggling to understand how DPS arent getting screwed?

    Just to explain the changes:
    1) There will be no more role-exclusive PVP gear. In Season 3 there will be no more Tank/Heal/Troll/DPS stat-based PVP gear, instead theres gonna be 1 set with exactly the same stats for each role. Everyone will have exactly the same Prec-Might-Dom-Vit-Resto etc etc

    2) Heal and Tanks are having their Dmg Penalties taken away. This ofc means that both roles will now hit as hard as they would if they switched over to DPS role.

    3) Debuffs, including Movement Mode debuffs, are being taken away. There will be no way to debuff anyone unless your a Troll. So no more getting rid of Ice Shields, cancelling out Rage Mode or reducing a Healers healing unless you are specifically a Troll.

    Singularly all these changes look like theyre heading in the right direction, and they kinda are. But if you look at them altogether you get:
    A Tank that hits almost as hard as a DPS with no real way to penetrate his defences
    A Heal that hits almost as hard as a DPS with no real way to slow his healing down
    A Troll that hits slightly less than everyone else but who can still debuff every other role
    A DPS with no use for Dom, no use for Resto, not much use for Vit, and hits only slightly harder than the others.

    Now I have absolutely no knowledge of what goes on behind DCUOs closed doors so there may in fact be something coming to help DPS out here, but right now I just cant see how a DPS is ever gonna win a 1v1 versus a Tank/Heal/Troll when this arrives?
    • Like x 4
  2. Original Gunna Well-Known Player

    Yea taking away the damage penalty could be a bad thing but if they take out home turf, I'd assume it would be like them having a core strength white mod at all times??
  3. Sodam Yat Dedicated Player



    Tbh the HT mods arent gonna make that big of a difference whether theyre left in or not after this.
    Think of it as a 1v1 match between a DPS and a Healer

    The DPS has his Prec & Might, and most likely some defensive capabilities like a shield. But all in all DPS are built to burn. Their goal is to lay down as much Damage as fast as possible. Any extra Resto the DPS has will either be a waste or if they have the HT mod Regenerative Shielding, will only restore a small portion of health.

    The Heal will now have exactly the same Prec & Might (minus any mods but that will only be a very slight increase for the DPS), he'll have no damage penalty while in Heal role, but ofc with the extra Resto the Heal will be able to Heal back all dmg taken.

    And its the same story versus Tank/Troll. I just dont see how 1v1s were factored in when this new Season was being thought up?
  4. Phantasy2013 Dedicated Player

    In reality this how it should be. The DPS are reigning supreme in PvP but now that will change as other roles have a true chance to compete PvP. High attack isn't the only true strength as now you have others roles advantages coming into play as opposed to those who has the highest might and precision. The only people I see who may have a problem with this are those who think they will lose their winning ways as Tank and Healer will not have their damage penalties any longer. Its time to get more realistic and Im glad the devs are doing that.

    As far as #1 goes from the op, I wish they would take that idea about the armor and apply it to all across the board as PvP and PvE armor all in one. (keep role specific armor of course but just put in both defense and toughness stats). Don't see this happening anytime soon but Im sure it will one day as DCUO evolves.
    • Like x 3
  5. Sir Arcanium New Player

    Healers are going to get pretty screwed in this up coming system by the sounds of it as well. The only debuff worth anything that trolls have is the healing debuff. The defense, atk etc debuffs are pretty weak all things considered and tanks have so many ways to cleanse themselves it's not really an issue. Healer debuffs have always been hardcore though, it reduces a healer to nothing. Going from 600-900 point heals without a crit.. to about 60-100 lol.

    It would seem at a glance the Next PVP season is going to be owned by tanks, rage in particular with no forced rage crash and trolls. Troll always have done good dmg, now they can still debuff, stun, shield etc with no worries about people debuffing their PoT or vit.
    • Like x 1
  6. Sodam Yat Dedicated Player



    Well I apologise but I gotta disagree.
    Ive faced good support roles and lost against them and im not ashamed of that fact either. Theres better players out there than me but if you thought that support roles had no chance so far then there are better ones out there than you too.

    Im not talking about focusing in on ONE point here which your doing, im talking about looking at the bigger picture. Right now in game if I face off against a Tank/Troll/Heal thats just as skilled as I am then I have just as much chance of losing as I do winning. The THREE changes that are coming in seem to be completely ignoring DPS when you look at em altogether.

    Im not some DPS afraid that im gonna be "knocked off my throne" here, im more interested in fair fights than I ever would be in "beasting" some low lvl. Some of the most entertaining PVP matches ive had were ones where I either came close to losing or lost. But after these changes are implemented I just cant see how DPS stand a chance?

    Tanks and Heals who hit like a DPS with DPS-esque stats but are unable to be debuffed doesnt level the playing field, all it does is create more imbalance.
    • Like x 3
  7. Hhussk New Player

    I'd just like to know why it's being changed this way.
  8. junglejim New Player

    At risk of pissing off a few 1v1 should be the last concern when balancing arena. Its only existed since h.t landed. Im curious to how its going to be pulled off though. The healer tank penalty going in u38 , probably months before season 3 begins is a more pressing concern of mine. Spytle said its to stop roles being excluded in t6 but how does that leave arena in the mean time? Im amazed theres not been more resistance to this on here. To put it in context healers and tanks currently running core strength can take it out for penetrating strikes or extended supercharge now. 25 and 25% buffs overnight to base damage while controllers continue to get marginalised . Tanks in particular with gear mods and confidence buff are already hitting like a dps with constant 35% modifier add penetrating strikes to that now. shields dont even work when debuffed. Its a brave troll that scrims as quantum or hl now. Stealth is an absolute must atm . Not going to be fun trolling scrims for a while
  9. Sodam Yat Dedicated Player


    Thats my point really, I LOVE the idea of PVP returning to the old days where getting that "50 KOs in 1 match" feat was easy. PVP was great back then and technically they are returning it to that with 1-stat gear, but when you take a step back and look at all 3 changes and what they really mean, its covering 3 of 4 roles. It doesnt matter if T6 Exp mods are coming or not, the Prec/Might increases wont be enough to make DPS a viable option in 1v1 Arenas/ Openworld PVP. Never mind that there will obviously be T6 Exp versions for Dom/Resto/Vit too.

    To me it looks like theres only 2 explanations:
    1) Theres something coming for DPS that the Devs havent announced yet
    2) These changes were alk thought about at different stages and different times, but it wasnt considered whats going to happen when theyre all put together.

    I can only hope its the former rather than the latter...
  10. Owl Devoted Player

    Remember that everyone has the option to Mod gear to increase Stats. Plus Stats can be increased through Skill points.
    So stats can be customized through Mods and Skill points.
    Confidence damage buffs are being removed so roles will no longer benefit against certain power sets.
    Only Damagers get Damage Role modifiers from powers. The smallest Damage modifiers are 35% while some are as high as 60%.
    So equally geared Damagers will still be able to out damage any support role.
    • Like x 4
  11. Sodam Yat Dedicated Player


    You make a good point about the disadvantage trolls will have too.
    The only thing id correct you on though is that 1v1s should be top of the list as far as PVP goes.
    If theres an imbalance in 1v1s then theres going to be an imbalance in everything else. Its a knock-on effect. And although your right about 1v1s only being introduced in a DLC, Duels and Open World 1v1s weren't. Theyve been here from the start.

    I have toons of all roles so im not trying to play favourites here but it just seems like DPS will be at an extreme disadvantage here. They'll be facing ppl who can hit just as hard, wont be able to take out a Tanks shield, wont be able to slow a Heals regen, wont be able to heal themselves, wont have Tank-level shielding themselves....

    Its gonna be like pitting a DPS against a Super-DPS...
  12. Sodam Yat Dedicated Player


    Thats a good point but it doesnt take into account power vs power.
    Just to explain what I mean ill give an example:

    HL Dps VS Ice Tank
    Ice Tank as usual is gonna spam Ice Shields over and over, except this time the HL DPS has no way to remove the Ice Shield as debuffs are gone. HL DPS can spam wep mastery and these dmg modifiers as much as he wants to dmg the shield and bring it down but in the meantime the Ice Tank will be doing DPS lvl wep attks, using more shields, and with the mix of Regen Shielding mod and the extra Resto he has from the New Gear he'll probably be full health while the HL DPS is teetering around the 30%-50% mark.

    Understand what I mean man? Tanks are gonna have all the advantages they already had, but now they'll hit 3 times as hard and if they face off against a DPS they dont need to worry bout their shields dropping too fast.

    Its gonna be a massacre.
    • Like x 3
  13. Owl Devoted Player

    Since everyone will have the same armor, Ice Tanks will not have higher Health, Toughness or Dominance that role armor provides.
    Shield damage prevention is based on Dominance+Restoration.
    Lower Dominance in armor = weaker shields
    Lower Toughness in armor = less role buff (90% Toughness in Ice example)
    Lower Health in armor = less survivability

    Support Roles do not gain damage modifiers from powers so a Damager should always be doing at least 35% more damage. Even more damage if higher damage modifiers are used and gear is Modded.

    And Hard Light has access to Light Barrier, Hard Light Shield, Amazonian Deflection, Restore & Group Shielding to prevent incoming damage. So Hard Light can rotate powers to prevent incoming damage.
  14. Ghostof91 New Player

    They mine's well just remove DPS role from PvP in this case.:rolleyes:

    Edit: Support roles will be godly especially tanks, more defense while burn like DPS.
    • Like x 1
  15. Minnion Devoted Player

    So your concern is that you might have to learn your powers support role in order to stay competitive? (Didn't they say that Trolls get to debuff?)
  16. kawe Loyal Player

    Since we will be getting this:

    A dps just can switch to his offrole and use its advantage. They basically designed it the way so you can dps in the support roles.
    If you plan your offrole LO well beforehand you can still be a fullfledged DPS with role bonuses.
    • Like x 1
  17. Sodam Yat Dedicated Player


    I wont have to learn anything actually, if you read my posts I clearly stated that I have multiple toons in all roles.
    My point is that theres 4 roles in this game for a reason, and no, DPS should not have to switch to their support role / stance in order to stay competitive. Thats like saying its ok for devs to release an overpowered power next and that DPS should have to switch to it to stay competitive.

    I want equality in PVP, where every role can beat every role based on Skill rather than whos taking advantage of new changes. Right now im beating all roles and also getting beaten by all roles, because im getting beaten by better players. That forces me to learn and switch up my strategy and get better. This new change seems to be excluding DPS from 1v1s Duels and Open World and that aint right.
    • Like x 1
  18. Minnion Devoted Player

    Yes but that would be adapting your play-style to the content... Clearly the OPs concern is that he will be at a disadvantage if he chooses not to play in his support stance.

    Wouldn't a Hard Light DPS be able to switch to Hard Light controller to gain access to some debuffs?

    I mean if we are going with the rock paper scissors, where healer(and troll) is paper, Tank is rock, and DPS is scissors then shouldn't it work out?
  19. Sodam Yat Dedicated Player



    No, im sorry but just no.
    The last few weeks we've had thread after thread after thread complaining because T6A is being run without Heals and without Tanks. And I agree with them, no role should ever be excluded from content. And now your solution is that the DPS stance should be excluded from PVP? That DPS should be forced to switch to a Heal/Troll/Tank stance just so they can participate?

    You dont fix a current problem by repeating it.
    • Like x 1
  20. winter13 New Player


    Your premise is that healers and tanks will be hitting as hard as DPS, and that is simply not the case . DPS will still hit harder than every other role.
    • Like x 2