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Regardless, the movement debuffs don't hit hard enough to make a difference damage wise. Almost any power one takes from their power set is a better damage move or support move. this again refers to clipping in general. To be worried about new players being hit with a weak power that inflicts a debuff over the tons of possible front loaded damage attacks possible with the exact same mechanic is a contradiction. He says one thing one minute, and then something different the next, when it suites him.

However, he pointed out how are new players supposed know they are being hit with a debuff, the easiest answer this this question is look for the red heart, shield, lightning bolt, cross hair, etc. under your name. If a player does not know what the red icons mean, the probability that they even know a debuff exists or is even being used them, is slim to none.

So again regardless, a non issue, as the powers that can be clipped do way less damage than WD. If he is worried about new players seeing animations, he should be worried about all animations, not just the few that don't suite him. That's all I am trying to point out. If it was the only powers that could be clipped, I would agree, since many others can be clipped and front loaded the same way, its a non issue yet again.

All this points out is Spider and Sparty's team had the better players. Skill should be the deciding factor of a win and always overcome the role vs role system. The role vs role system is perfect as it is. It gives you a slight advantage, but nothing a better player cannot overcome. What are you talking about saying a premade team who utilizes all roles should always win? That is the old cookie cutter way of PvP that is now dead, and good riddance.

A win should always be decided by skill, not the power sets or roles we choose to play. If you want cookie cutter PvP back so badly, go find some like minded people and play by those rules. Good luck finding people interested though, oh yeah, that's why they changed it in the first place.

First off, the role system is still very much alive and in the game. You can still debuff a controller with your powers. Now you get a fighting chance against your counter role, the Healer. All roles still debuff their counter roles for 12 seconds and confidence, the only difference is now that role that previously stood almost no chance of winning because they had no way to debuff back, has a fighting chance and can subject you to the same penalties but for only 6 seconds. Therefore they must spam that specific power twice as much as you should be spamming yours, giving you yet another advantage. It sound slike you are upset you no longer get your free wins in the Arenas.

Iwe were all stuck in DPS role as you said you wanted, that would be the end of role vs role PvP, as you claim you do not want, yet are still asking for... quite the contradiction, yet again. Why does that opening statement not surprise me? You are an Ice Tank, Hanuman. Of course you want easy mode back in PvP. My best advice, is instead of relying solely on your power set to try and get a win, how about relying on your actual skill to do it? Once you do that, the debuffs and fighting debuffed will not even phase you.

Well he doesn't like roles, or voice communication, or premades. He's against almost everything in arenas that encourage teamwork and social interaction. The only thing we can agree on is that pve should be removed from pvp. But obviously you and me have the pve gear already and just want to create a level playing field for people whereas I doubt he has any of that stuff and is just tired of people using it against him. There really is nothing to discuss with him and I honestly think he would enjoy legends more. Clutchmeister should go show him the ropes.

PvP just isn't his thing. Anyways, I'm pretty sure all of us PvP'ers have come up with the conclusion that we want HT completely taken out of arenas, PvE a whole separate thing, and movement debuffs just removed all together.

You do know if you clip the moves he was talking about there is no damage right? Please go and test those moves and come back. The point is they are super fast, making them very nice. Better than the alternatives. You can apply the debuff and it's so fast they don't even see it. Yes a red debuff will pop, but when your focus is on the center of your screen you don't always see everything instantly. That's why they've made an effort to put things in the middle of the screen. Yes clipping is a skill, yes you can hide things. But in these cases you don't have to. In fact you'd be dumb to as they are so fast without clipping you'd actually be losing time.

You're off point again, focusing on the clipping rather than the comparison of the powers. Is it wrong that these can be canceled, no, they are channeled powers by all means. But the fact that you can instantly cancel and get the debuff makes it a very large advantage.

I've always been for new players having the same opportunities to learn, not water down combat so they are equal. Same opportunities for gear, mods, soders, etc available in PVP FROM PVP, not another source. That is balance. When a player has to pay money just for the "chance" to obtain tools to maintain similar stats as other players at the top end it creates a glass ceiling. Players who either don't or for some reason cannot complete the highest end PVE content are therefore at a loss in PVP. That isn't fair. When it comes to weapon combat, role knowledge, team synergy, etc--that is something which should be learned by experience and exposure.

Regarding the two powers that can be clipped with WEAPONS--what other powers in this game can do that? That is what I mean by new players being at a loss. There is a clip hierarchy in place for a reason and everything should follow those rules.

Once again, you bring up HT in order to make something viable. SS only needs to double jump and it can be further away in less time than acro. Talking about left field...my comment was that the movement debuffs for acro are clearly lackluster when compared to those for flight and SS. They are better because they do more bang for the buck.

I never ask for anyone to agree with me, just to provide reason and evidence behind what they think. You justify yourself with yourself and cite some half cocked reason as to why you are right so at this point I'm done with you.

My breakdown of the movement debuffs was to show how inconsistent these are and yet you call them balanced...

You say debuff/cleanse grenades were changed because they were unfair and yet in the same breathe say that high level mods and HT is available to everyone--when did those two DLC's become available for F2P? Debuff/cleanse grenades are/were available to everyone. They were changed due to player outcry against them as it became a futile game of who could afford to make the most, not afford to make them in general. A healer in high end matches could easily burn through 3-4 stacks of them to stay cleansed. Other roles were using them to circumvent weapon counters and CC effects. This is another area where you are wrong...

The other team in that video was a premade and met the same way as Sparty, Spider, Taka, and Zypher on test to team up. Jens even pulled Sparty into a private chat after the matter and discussed the Event with him.

Are you surprised the PVP community is destroyed? In the beginning of DC, they set up rules. The rules were tanks were tanks, healers were healers and controllers were controllers. There was an RPS system implemented to balance the these three roles. Tank < Controller < Healer. For a while this system was simple yet perfect. Then they introduced the first set of mods which already was a little iffy. But of course, the DCUO community neeeeeded their crafting because "dcuo is a mmo n erry mmo needs craftin cuz das how it twerks n der is nothin else in da world we want cept craftin". So now you can increase your power in any way you want with these mods (and of course we have to find a way where premium gets the most out of it, which isn't a problem.) Now, DCUO decides they need to make PVP easier for newer players for, the only MMO to do this probably. So they introduce Hometurf. Hometurf was what I thought to be the finishing blow, regen shield, regen breakout, explosive block. All these new mods that pretty much curb stomped balance with cement shoes on. BUT WAIT, THERES MORE. Movement debuffs. When PVP was already dying out, they just needed to push it a liiiiittle farther into the void. And how would they do this you didn't ask? By destroying the RPS system, the last bit of balance PVP had, that they set up in the first place. So yes, the PVP community is dead, and I can guarentee PVP will only get worse (somehow) and the players wont care, everyone wants more legends characters and raids and more mods and more styles and more nerfs and more buffs and more powers and more lights and more handicaps. But it wont matter sooner or later, I am completely sure that DCUO, assuming they'll continue on this money hungry path (which they will), will die out either this year or next year. The only reason DCUO is able to feed you all this ******** is because they haven't had any competition and they had a headstart. Defiance isn't anything special, it gets boring. But now with PS4 out and all these new MMOs coming to consoles, DCUO will finally have some real competition, and hopefully they wont make the same moronic mistakes DCUO has. Players will drop the game, players have dropped the game, they will finally have a new console MMO to explore.

I think you used to wrong terminology here. Weapon attacks aren't clipping vortex trap and whirlwind attack, they're CANCELLING them while still applying the debuff. You can also jump cancel them and still apply a debuff from long or short range.

I find it quite ironic though that the person giving you a hard time about it is the same person who was advocating cancelling over clipping

Aye I was gonna point that out, they are actually just normal channeled abilities, they work ont he same principle as Defile. The issue is that they are stupidly fast compared to anything else.

Some of these points were my original suggestions as alternatives to movement debuffs tbh. Increased damage (even just loosening the cap) would be huge in reducing overhealing and drawn out matches. The current state of PVP is all about debuffs and damage because mitigation can be nullified. It under minds support roles and pushes players to chase damage stats (even healers) as they are more effective.

Longer grounding (4-5 seconds unless trinket or tank cleanse used) would help prevent players from running off when being focused and require more responsiveness when under attack. Just kiting away with no means to retaliate is what prolongs matches more than anything.

I would prefer the debuffs reduce actual stats and not affect powers. That way there no power is ineffective as a tool, however your tools are less powerful because you are debuffed. Other MMO's focus more on stat reduction and I don't see/hear any complaints on their forums about healers, tanks, CC, dps imbalances like mentioned on these forums. Either way I agree cleanses should be more effective. At this time they do nothing more than give a few seconds and then it is back to waiting again. There is no way to relieve pressure and that diminishes tanks position in a premade.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Yet you accuse me of misinformation. In PvP 9/10 times I am always in the Controller role. So I guess that makes "he doesn't like roles" statement, flawed. Like much of all of your discussions in this thread. Whether I premade or use VC is my choice, it is not a requirement in game. So again, how people choose to PvP should be none of your concern. Worry about yourself in that aspect as well. I enjoy both Legends and Arena, and do great in both, as I have already shown in this thread.

You keep missing the fact that these debuffs were not created to help perfect premade teams, they were created to help give those not on the team with each of the roles a fighting chance. Skill will always overcome any role set up regardless, so whether the debuffs are here, is again, a non issue.

SHHH

Thank you, correct I used the wrong verbage. That is one of the points I was making with my breakdown, not the main one so the fact there are inherent imbalances still stands imo.

I'm really not worried about that individual as he is back to being invisible to me .

I am pretty sure you "PvPer's" are in the minority as you always have been, and again everything you just typed that I quoted can be done by utilizing the scrimmage feature. The issue you "PvPers' keep facing is no one is interested in playing the way you like it. So you continue to try and push your way of playing, which was never very popular to begin with, on everyone else. The needs of the few (you self proclaimed hardcore PvPers) should never out weigh the needs of the majority (the rest of the community who is enjoying PvP as we speak).

Each and every argument you guys have tried to make in this thread has been picked apart and shown to be a flawed argument. I can't be the only one to notice the same handful of Healers still in here trying to make a case for debuffs being removed? The best part is pugs will not be the ones debuffing you to the extent you keep describing. It is premades with as much or more knowledge than you, who would play in that manner, and if they did it they wouldn't be using the movement debuffs, they would be following you around spiking you with a Controller handling the debuffs every 12 seconds. Come on now.

The combat isn't watered down, the only thing that was added to combat was a way to utilize and incorporate more powers to create new strategies. Hence why the movement debuffs are great, it is more viable options to add to our already amazing choices for creating loadouts.

How are mods chance? At this point in time there are MANY crafters on both sides willing to make the mods for free as long as the materials are provided. Here is the link to the list in case you missed it. https://forums.station.sony.com/dcu...e-expert-mod-crafters-uspc-hero-guide.172960/

What really isn't fair is that some of us have PvE gear that is far better and damaging than anything close to what is available in PvP. That is what needs to be addressed and according to the devs is being addressed. With the new season PvP gear will be far superior to PvE gear for PvP purposes, as it should be. Also, PvE gear will be severely limited soon in PvP as well. All changes that well help PvP in the long term, so again a non issue since it is already coming.

I am not talking about just Light and Celestial. I am talking all power sets. Like casting damage power with a beneficial power. It doesn't just have to be a weapon attack. It can be multiple powers clipped into a strain of powers that does a good amount of damage and hides the animations. Regardless, don't act like you are concerned for new players. The current version of PvP is far from watered down, if it was you and the other healers in here wouldn't be complaining. It almost sounds as if more and more people are picking up on how to utilize these new tools in PvP and you don;t have as many easy matches anymore. Either, way that means PvP is going in the right direction.

I already said I was for removing PvE from PvP, however I realize as a business they cannot devalue their own products. So HT will most likely never be completely removed from PvP, and that is something everyone is just going to have to accept. It being removed from TDM to speed up those extremely slow outcomes was the right move.

The problem with the debuff/cleanse consumables was only a few could afford them. With PvP mods now coming, and PvP gear being made better than PvE again, and lastly the ability to pay for HT mainframe with PvP marks is all another step to ensure they are accessible to everyone.

I have said this once and I will say it again. They removed the effectiveness of cleanses to ensure matches end promptly. Not so that you could prolong the match further than you already do as a Healer. The fact that anyone could prevent themselves from being debuffed an entire match was ridiculous, and rightfully adjusted. Before there could be instances were you were pitted against a team and had no way to debuff their support roles, and lose only because you lacked the proper roles to do debuff them. Now that we ALL have access to the debuffs, that is no longer the scenario, and we all have the ability to debuff one another. Whether you choose to add it to your loadout is up to you. If you do not use them, that is your problem.

Tanks should be going after the other teams power battery, if one doesn't exist then they should be killing whoever is attack their healer in addition to casting their cleanses. Cleansing is fine as is. We are all subjected to the same debuffs and durations of those debuffs. Just because you are having trouble adapting to new version of PvP, does not mean it should be changed just to accommodate you.

The debuffs, and the manner they are effecting roles currently is fine. Again each support roles performance is hindered by them, and this is not only to keep the matches interesting from a strategic stand point, but also speed them along so they aren't deadlocks.

No power set is identical, nor should you ever expect them to be identical. Each power works and operates differently, as does each power set. Why would you want all movement powers to be identical if you are against equal power amongst roles and power sets? Contradicting yourself again?

Those movement powers don't hit hard enough to matter lol. What exactly is the issue again? The animation is to fast? Come on now.