PvE DPS Balance Initiative: Scaling and Midrange

Discussion in 'War Room (Powers, Artifacts, & Builds)' started by Sore, Aug 31, 2015.

  1. Sore Steadfast Player

    Would you be willing to do Live Tests of Sorcery so I can compare your TT against your LT for scaling purposes?

    If you could do Live Tests of Earth for similar reasons, that'd be bonus.
  2. Sore Steadfast Player

    Gosh, another thing to share is my concern about having a +/- 5% tolerance. The difference between low and high could be a 10% damage difference. That's pretty wide in my book. That's the difference of one powerset doing 28.5K DPS and another doing 31.5k. That's a 3K difference. That'll add up. I kind of wish the devs would hold to +/- 2% (1.2K DPS) or less.
    • Like x 9
  3. L T Devoted Player

    That's a fair point, but I would bet that there's +/- 5% between various testers of some of the powers. That's certainly true for Quantum.
  4. Lt Skymaster Dedicated Player

    Not at all, I'll get them tomorrow

    Edit: By the way the Mod Boxes in the CR126 boxes in PC test now have prec&might mods
    • Like x 1
  5. Karasawa Loyal Player

    Rage - Melee

    Rotation:Clipping Outrage, Revenge, and Eviscerating Chain with Galling Eruption>Bloodlust>Relentless Anger on cooldown.
    Mean: 33291

    Rage - Range

    Rotation: Clipping Dreadful Blast with Bloodlust>Ferocity on cooldown with Robot Sidekick.
    Mean: 20616

    9205 might
    4708 prec
  6. Karasawa Loyal Player

    Sorc - Melee

    Rotation: Brawling Haymaker with Offering>Weapon of Destiny, Shard of Life, Circle of Destruction, and Soul Well.
    Mean: 29086

    Sorc - Range

    Rotation: Handblaster Scissor Kick with same loadout.
    Mean: 22275

    10003 might
    3897 prec
  7. TheDarknessWithin Loyal Player


    Thanks for the graphs Sore, and thanks for the testing all testers.

    I'm actually calm now to see that testing and balance are being focused on very nicely, keep it up.
  8. DEMONIZER1 Loyal Player

    I hope this isn't the balance we've been waiting on...just saying.

    From what I see - we'll still be dealing with some FoTM.

    Just not sure anymore...is it really worth it for a player that's been a loyal sub for 5 years....?

    Tom Clancey The Siege isn't that far out...

    Time too impress DB!

    • Like x 1
  9. lukelucky Devoted Player

    I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE A HUGE TY TO YOURSELF AND ALL OTHERS INVOLVED IN THIS. Really cool u invest all the time and effort to better a game we all enjoy. Will enjoy more so thanks to u and others work.

  10. SasquaT Dedicated Player

    I love this "PvE DPS Balance Initiative: Scaling and Midrange" idea .
    I want u to notice if u testing only at sparing targets its only 1st step to balance ( sparing targets dont give back ) but its cool people spending time and doing devs work and for sure that might help lot.
    Dont forget there are some powers ( like rage outrage,nature dog ) where melee cant be done coz u need to stand in 1 shoot area and for sure u gona get one shooted so increas this type of dpsing have no sense if u testing it only at sparing targets .

    It will be nice if u test all those powers in PVP content as well .Im not big PVP fan ( meybe becouse huge unbalnce atm) .Im not sure devs can separate ( time, srtength,stun ) same power at PVP and at PVE .Last time rage sc berserk was reduced coz of pvp and i gree with this coz it was to op at pvp but why they change it at pve as well ?Its becouse it cant be separate pvp from pve or some other rezon ?
    Without this separation its gona be realy huge thing to balance all powers so everyone who knows how to play might finaly say i loose/win but it was fun and fair fight .( i got lagg :) )
    Thats my few coins .
    Thx all who testing .
  11. L T Devoted Player

    Actually Im pretty impressed how balanced things are. There are really just a few cases that are far out of whack. A couple of tweaks to either the base damage or to the scaling of them and this phase will be over.

    I thing the next phase will be the hard part.
  12. TheDarknessWithin Loyal Player

    We are still at phase 1 correct?
  13. L T Devoted Player

    This is Phase 2-- live scaling.

    A quick glance at Sore's most excellent charts and you'll see that Quantum needs a nerf for both range and melee, Mental could do with a slight range nerf, and Gadgets is in need of a melee buff (but I think the plan for Gadgets is to balance it separately, along with Celestial).

    The hard part will be balancing things like set-up times, interruptibility, and need to get within 7.5m instead of being able to sit back at a more safe 12m. That's what's on the horizon, and we're almost but not quite ready to start talking about that kind of stuff.
    • Like x 2
  14. generalzod Committed Player

    yes could be a issue .
  15. generalzod Committed Player

    i really think i see the vison now and it's coming Sore and others are working hard ! i think the 3 phase will get us very close ! But im worried About this

    Other Design Considerations
    It is worth noting the other aspects of balance that are not actively a part of this initiative. It does not mean these things won't get attention at some future point. It doesn't mean they will. For now it is important to acknowledge them:
    • Setup Time: Burst powersets can unload damage faster, providing better scoreboard results against trash mobs
    • Complexity: Some powersets have AMs as easy as 1-2-3-4 while others require complex input sequences and timings.
    • Interrupts: Some powersets are highly vulnerable to being countered while executing their AMs while others are not.
    I feel all this work to get them close ,but we have these issue will come into play , or when its all said in done Burst powers having a higher ceiling will still way out preform the rest ! Only a suggestion but Celestial , electric, nature and hard light should put out the most at range and since Rage is melee design it should be the strongest melee power ! And these are things the devs told us about Complexity and rage melee !

    Regardless of the outcome thanks Sore and the other testers ! Its forsure atleast in the right direction !
    • Like x 1
  16. generalzod Committed Player

    Yep LT I just said that ! Its bigger then people think even on live if ice is 5% higher then nature . That's a good amount of damage so yeah trash mobs ice/fire/earth/sorcery will smash threw . That's' fine but at bosses the dot classes really arnt catching up if the damage is 5% behind ? The balance would be the dots and celestial are 2-5% ahead and they still will lose at the ads/trash mobs . But then will even it all out at the boss fight ! I Don't think its that hard to just put Dots and celestial up a little . In the long run it will save alot of headaches for this whole balance thing !
    • Like x 1
  17. TheDarknessWithin Loyal Player

    Thanks for the info, Gadgets needs a melee buff? Wow now I'm confused, but I'm not testing so, I'll leave it to the trust of the experts.
  18. Remander Steadfast Player

    Keep in mind that the "super clip" is being eliminated.
    • Like x 2
  19. Lt Skymaster Dedicated Player

    For the Tunso test for Sorcery, same loadouts as before:

    CoD-Soul Well- Shard of life - offering- fury. (The 6th would be for grand summoning)

    Melee with Flip slash
    Mean: 24789

    Range with Scissor Kick
    Mean: 18326

    I'm a bit uncomfortable with the result I got with melee, I feel it's a bit low, but I did multiple times the test and the results were similar.
  20. Sore Steadfast Player

    It's worth opening up a debate here. Robot Sidekick, yay or nay. Keep in mind that some powersets don't have a free fifth or sixth slot to leave open for a supercharge. RS adds about 0.6K damage. If you don't have RS there you might have a SC. We can't fairly account for a SC in a 3 minute sparring target test. But that SC would give you some damage per second over the course of the instance. If that is less than 0.6K, you should just have RS instead. If it is more than 0.6K, then at least RS is a placeholder to represent SOME of that damage potential players will have access to in Live Play. The tests for Quantum, Ice, and Fire (maybe 1 or two more) had RS in them for the results here.