PSA: KNOE disband and requeue...it's not always faster

So i was in 3 groups in the last week (one last night) where when doing KNOE, things didn't go perfectly and at 5:20 or so, disbands were called for. In all 3 instances MOST of us voted no. In 2 of those instances, people left and we were made to re-open the run. In one of those instances, we only got 1 back fill, so a total of 7 people finished the captures.

However in all 3 of those...we were done with the first phase before 10 min on the on duty menu even with the backfill and being short a person in one case. Not sure how many people passed basic math, but if a disband isn't called for and voted on until at least 5:30....then add a minute or so for everyone to get out. Then add another minute or MORE to re-queue and re-enter, then add another 5:20 to clear the towers, a disband will take at LEAST 12-14 min or more to get to the same spot. Last I checked 10 < 12 OR MORE. I know its 1000% faster than bailing out and having to form a new group, where the same thing might happen again.

So for those of you who get all bent out of shape when 1 bar doesn't clear in time and there is a horde to fight, look at your group. Are the CR's decently high? Do you have more than 1 person who can switch to tank and help control the hordes? Do people seem to be moving around to most effectively dispatch the resulting adds? Well, then maybe just tough it out and fight the hordes. Not saying there is NEVER a time that disband doesn't work out better, but it's not every time. If your vote doesn't pass, maybe give it a shot vs making things worse by going off in a huff and pouting about it.

The issue comes more to a “theoretically faster” to brute through it then disband. Yes in some cases you can easily kill the hoard and then get back on track within minutes making it quicker to just continue. However if things go bad enough so that a hoard appears, then another, and another. Then I have to think it’s better to disband. Normally I play it by ear. I’ll go to which node I need to claim. If a hoard breaks out in a neighboring node (if I’m west and a hoard breaks out north or south) I know I have enough burn to go and kill the hoard with enough time to fly back to my node and insure it’s also safe. But if then south gets a hoard and then east. I can’t clear 3 hoards. At this point it’s clear that the group is not strong enough to handle hoards with enough efficiency to allow me to at least cover 2 nodes. At that point it’s better to just disband.

Really? People do that 3+ months into the episode? I could understand it at the beginning, when players were under-geared and inexperienced - I've been in a few PUGs, especially in the alert, which simply couldn't burn the mobs fast enough, or didn't think to stand on the circles. But now? Lol...

2-3 half-decent players - DPS, or tanks - can pretty much carry the whole 1st phase, by running between the obelisks and helping where help's needed. But I'm guessing, that the problem is, that most good players are maxed out for the episode and - like myself - have no need to run the raids, or only run E+, so people left running KNOE are mostly - well - the remaining ones.

The other problem is that this raid is so easy, that people who should be running Normal, or even Casual, fancy their chances in an Elite version, especially since they've farmed Renown from casual runs, or whatever and bought some Elite gear.

You notice the title isn't 'It's NEVER faster' as yes, sometimes it is. However, there are several mitigating factors that likely would make it the slower option. Did you have a full group, or did you queue a few in? Are the DPS CRs higher? Do you have 'role only' players? Do you have a few 'can go tank' players? Are you losing 1, 2, 3 or all 4 points at once? Is there 1 active horde or more? Most of these can be observed quickly or are known before you have to make the decision.

Personally if I'm on a tank character, I'd never disband, as having a decent tank (or better...2 of them) is the biggest swaying factor in fixing a bad 1st phase. Pulling the adds OFF the node (some will stand right on it and pull...smh), and knowing when to move to the next one make a big difference in fixing things(tanks...you don't need to stay there till the dead winter is down). I know I'll do it right...not sure about anyone else.

My point was more that there are some that as soon as it doesn't clear they will vote the disband like it's a foregone conclusion that disband is faster. It's not always the case. Many times, you can be done by 10 or 11 min even with a bad start. Much like in your example, you CAN figure it out and disband in a min or so....but sometimes that vote is up even as the first horde appears.

I will say that I think the WORST group I was ever in, that took the most time, it was still maybe at 15 min before we captured...so even then, only a few min better to disband and re-queue. I'm sure there are some that could take 20 min or more, or maybe NEVER would get the job done, but to think you can detect that within 10 seconds of 'failure' on the captures is kooky.

Nope still happens a lot, at least over here. I won't say every time, but yeah...most times. If the capture doesn't go perfect, you can expect to at least see someone type 'disband?' in chat if not call for the vote.

Personally I'm just there for marks and brilliances, and getting into KNOE is USUALLY quicker than casual, reg or +, and of course, no brilliances in casual or reg anyway.

Everything going forward is designed to try and keep you active longer that includes developing content with dumb stuff like this.

There are so many other options to keep your player Base active then pulling off stunts like this with content it's as if they had too many drinks at the pub or something. No more drinking on the job guys

How is this a 'stunt'? There is a mechanic in the run...sometimes people mess it up. Many times after it's messed up the players CHOOSE to take what they think will be the quicker route of disbanding and re-running the run vs continuing. This is 100% our choice, not some scheme the game came up with.

If anything, this 'dumb stuff' has led to less time in game as the raid is one of the easiest runs we've seen in a long time. Other stuff like the daily progress bar, or increases prices, non tradable items and lower drop rates....yeah, those could be part of some overall 'keep them online' scheme, but people choosing to disband and wasting more time on their own? Nah....that's on us, the players.

Another swing and a miss by Budokai101. Batting .0001 as usual.

It's a stunt imagine how ridiculous this is going to be for someone to try and do once this episode is old. I don't even understand why they even do elite and elite plus it's flipping ridiculous. The only mechanic everyone has a hard time with is how utterly boring they continue to make PVE. They even push the boring envelope even further by making Elite and Elite plus content just down right ridiculous.

Dcuo should not be a PVE only mmo stop making elite and elite plus content for god sake point the ship in another direction.

People hate PVE so much they had to give you 2 more slots to try and keep people playing PVE lol

I pretty much exclusively push it these days since works has been so busy I end up running it deep in the week at weird times. So I get plenty of… unique… players. Even with the randoms I run I’ve never personally ran into an issue when the group will vote to disband as soon as someone doesn’t clear it in time. I’ve had times when hoards will appear and I’ll rush over to clear the hoard myself. 14/15 times it’s enough to get past the 1st phase before sht hits the fan. It’s after the first wave that things go south. I finish clearing the wave then get control of that node as well as my own node when another group struggles and gets a hoard.

If 2 groups are struggling then I’m ok with disbanding since at that point I have to go clear that then by the time I’m finishing off that hoards mini boss another one spawns. So 9/10 times it’s better to just disband since I can gauge the quality of the players in there and know it’s better to just regroup.

You can at times see if it will be bad just by looking at the rate the first wave of adds is cleared. So I guess I can understand what you’re running intoc but I’ve never experienced a group disbanding as soon as the first wave is failed.

Pretty much all of my recent runs 1 of the nodes doesn't capture in time and it triggers a horde. At least in my groups enough people are used to this that 1 or 2 dps go help capture and we are done a few minutes later. Definitely faster than a requeue and wait 5 minutes again. I think it's also as someone else said when I see a lot of low CR people either just coming back or just deciding to start elite now. It is the easiest elite raid in a long time, so I have also random queued it the past few weeks on my villains when no LFG groups are forming.

Ok, but the mechanics of the raid have nothing to do with the topic at hand, which is the tendency to disband vs battling the hordes. Go back to one of your 'power rings' topics and post there. This had nothing to do with the actual mechanics, boredom or PvP.

I still say it's perception. In some of the worst ones, if you still finish before say 12 min, it was faster to stay. Can you honestly say that on average if you stayed it was longer than 12 min to complete? Granted, we can't know on the ones where disband succeeds, but all 3 of my examples were also late in the week, and had mish mosh players (some queued in) and we still finished each under 10 min.

I think this is similar to the people who feel they'd rather use an SOC when doing 120 or 140 arti breakthroughs as failing 9 times with an SOP 'feels' like it's worse, when in reality it's still a .50 cents savings. Fighting for an extra 3 or 4 min because the capture window was blown 'feels' worse as it IS more of a hassle, but in reality, 10, 11 or even 12 min is still probably better than most disband/requeue times to get to the same place. Moreso if that 2nd run ends up also getting blown at the 5 min mark. Again, we can't know for sure how any disbanded run WOULD have gone, but I can say for sure some that maybe would have disbanded ended better by not passing the vote.

Again, just saying...people seem to feel it's a set in stone fact and will vote yes every time. Just saying....it's not ALWAYS faster.

This is a game where people proactively complain about having to play the game.

This is a game where people proactively beg for the game to shut down when a change is made that they dislike.

This is a game where someone queues as a healer, DPS the entire time, then after 3 wipes, ask someone else to heal because it'd go too slow if he doesn't DPS.

This is not a game inhabited my smart or patient people. Being called a Reddit reject is a step up for most.

It has everything to do with what I'm saying. they're giving you two more art slots so that you can now not care so much about doing mechanics man lol. They are giving you 2 more slots it gives everyone what they been asking for which is stats matters. You should.not have to swap arts to feel progression in the game. Swapping arts lowers the clamp why should swapping be allowed but not more slots?

People want to kill Grundy first and wait 5 minutes why is that? It's because the clamp is in the way and beating a dead horse takes too long. Why even make Elite and Elite plus in the first place its pointless

The clamp is in the way in un-clamped content.

I can't help but feel you're just over-thinking everything just way too much

That's because the game is a Sandbox MMO it's trying to be a real RPG but it doesn't quite understand how to go about it. It even thinks it might have the opportunity to become one with five art slots but it still won't.

It's got over a bazillion gajillion episodes and you're still playing in the sand with one episode only I mean how boring is that such a tiny sandbox for such a massive game with so much content

Man...you may be the MOST non-comprehending person I've ever met. People wait for 5 min because it's almost impossible to beat the towers in less than 5 min and the mechanic of waiting should almost always be faster (even in reg). Granted, with 4 tanks, maybe you could get done in about 4 min, but as most groups would lose at least 1 tower along the way, that 2 min initial timer will keep resetting to 0, so I doubt it's possible in anywhere less than that. And killing Grundy first makes perfect sense, especially if you planned on getting done as clean as possible since if he happens across 1 tower it will for sure mess the timing up.

So...The clamp (which doesn't even apply here), arti slots, ez mechanics, progression, swapping, PvP, sunspots, the price of tea in China (even with Tariffs)....all are what they are....the TOPIC of discussion is, is it always faster to disband and requeue or not....I say not. I actually say it's likely slower in most competent groups, especially pre-made groups....however many still disband out of hand as soon as horde 1 appears....wasting everyone's time....much like responding to you does.

Agree or not...or make an argument on THAT topic...or relate your own success or horror story on the subject....cool. But whatever it is you are talking about, yeah....it's not the subject.

Probably. I'll try to do less thinking and fit in better.

No, it was more out of frustration as every run I got into took a long time to get together as they were mostly Sunday or Monday, one LATE last night. So after 20 min of group building and even queuing in people, I was extra observant of MY time being wasted with a re-queue when in the end it took less time to get it done....on the runs where people left...it would have been even faster.

On the one were 2 people split one guy even chastised us for being 'noobs' and NOT disbanding. Ironically I saw that same guy shouting to rebuild a new group well past the time we finished the full run with 7 people. Yep....sure did waste our time getting things done.

:Like I said...it was a PSA as once things become the accepted 'norm' in this game, it seems people forget we DO have options. Kind of like if I put one out that you CAN use 2 tanks on 1st boss of NUE vs watching the one you have die 10x and wiping....or just giving up and disbanding for the night.

Definitely is perspective. It’s always going to hard to tell.

Since I came back I’ve only had an issue of I knoe 1x where we disbanded due to the group not being capable of doing the timer. Them couldn’t get a handle on the horde. I was basically soloing 1 node then flying to the north node (I was east) to handle their horde before going back to my node to do it since my node partner went to a different node and they still couldn’t handle there’s. I had north and east nodes fully blue and the south and west were always at max red. I couldn’t go east or south because I kept having to go back and forth between soloing east and helping north.

So after 2m on south and west being fully red even with 5 players on them we just disbanded. After going back in I went to the node with the worst dps captured my node and still had to help a second node. This time however we were able to do it after 2 hordes and finished.