Proper Ettiquette opinions (swap vs kick)

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Brit, Oct 24, 2018.

  1. Brit Loyal Player

    I do most of my raiding through the random queue, so this is shaped very much around how to approach a random queue. Obviously the first and foremost answer that I believe we can all agree on is: if you want a specific group, build it yourself. However, for low level raid content where I'm just grinding it out for that one last style piece or the odd bit of furniture, or often just for fun, the random queue suits just fine.

    What I am curious about is what other people in the random queue feel is appropriate to do when a group is not the traditional or ideal make-up.

    Upon arriving into the raid, you discover that the raid breakdown is not ideal. Do you let people play how they queued, understanding it's less efficient? Do you tell people to change to roles that aren't what they wanted to be? If you do tell somebody they need to change roles, who has to change? The guy who has the lower CR? The guy who queued both roles? The guy performing worse at the given job based on the raid stats page?

    If somebody doesn't want to change their role when the group tells them they have to (for example, a Fire DPS who has no tank gear or stats to be able to swap to Tank as the group requests), what is the appropriate response? Kick them for refusing to switch? And if you do have to kick somebody in order to get that specific role you need, who do you kick? The guy who refuses to change roles, or the guy who is performing the poorest?

    I'm not trying to convert anybody to my way of thinking, or give some sob story about something that happened in order to bring in the pity parade. I'm just recently returned to the game after a couple years break, and I'm trying to get my thumb onto the pulse of the community so I know how to properly fall in line. Back when I played in the day, the random queue for raids just didn't work (pre-PS community there weren't the numbers), and in alerts we largely just steamrolled it with whatever popped and didn't care. I just don't want to be 'that guy' who gets a bad reputation now for doing something contrary to the popular opinion.
    • Like x 1
  2. WilderMidnight Steadfast Player

    do what you think is best at that moment.

    outside of elite content i use the queue system for basically everything. pretty much always have. some of my best runs have all been at the hand of a random queue. not that lfg lacks purpose. both have ups and downs.

    personally if i'm in an instance and it looks like things arent working out i would rather leave myself than kcik someone else.
    • Like x 2
  3. High Troller Loyal Player

    sometimes the group will proceed even when proper roles are established. my best those you do not want to play with ever again.....on IGNORE... not only will you never see or hear them speak again, you will never get queued up with them again... i've put almost entire raid groups on ignore before because their leaguemate queue up as a troll and refuses to a higher tiered raid.

    save yourself the misery and exercise ignore.
    • Like x 2
  4. nanoUSB Well-Known Player

    I queue up almost all the time myself, since lfg is just almost as random, save for a guaranteed "ideal" role setup.
    Keeping up one set per toon, which usually is the role set, I prefer to play the respective role as I'm not good with keeping some dps rotation going until things are dead. Even when playing quasi-dps, I stay in role for some supportive shielding or heals while going ham with prec, which does just fine, not amazing but fine, in some cases even good enough to contribute top damage to the run (which is always a bad sign to me :D ).

    Overall I don't actually care that much, if a group setup is somehow suboptimal. On the contrary! It can be quite a challenge to keep everyone alive with my healer, thinking of individual power management or being the aggro magnet there, or to do my best with pulling and positioning to keep as much harm from my team as I can with my tank (still a rookie with tanking, but it's a lot of fun). And even if these runs fail, there tend to be some things you can take away from; a lesson, a quirk in a mechanic, a new perspective on whatever detail of an instance, making you better equipped for the next run.

    The only times I'd actually kick anyone, would be if they contribute literally nothing or obviously little, those leeches deserve nothing, and if someone screws things up on purpose, which rarely happens as well.

    But all that seems to be less likely than people willing to switch roles to at least cover the basics, which is nice :)
    • Like x 1
  5. L T Devoted Player

    If you queue as a role, you should be prepared to play it. Period.

    You might be in the batcave with a bunch of cr 200+ players with no tank or heal needed, or there might be several at level toons that will require some heals, will run out of power without a troll, and will be one-shot repeatedly if there's no tank.

    You might even (gasp) wind up with an all at-level group that needs 2 of some roles to have an easy time.

    If you only want to play DPS, only queue as that.
    • Like x 6
  6. LeagueOfV Dedicated Player

    I use the random queue for my lower CR heroes and alts, and it's really frustrating when people queue as a role to get into content, but have no gear and no intention of playing that role. In this case I believe it is fair to kick the player and inform them to only queue dps if they don't have gear or knowledge to play their support role.
    It's tough in end game content to use the queue even for the normal raids. We usually get through if someone is willing and able to switch for 2 healers in the raids, or 2 tanks if one or both are kind of weak. But runs can take an hour. This was about a month ago, so I'm not sure if things have improved as people learn the raid mechanics. LFG groups finish the normal raids in 10-15 minutes with 5111 easily.
    • Like x 2
  7. Darth Piper Loyal Player

    That is a huge pet peeve... and I think it could be partially resolved by reordering the roles in the selection. Put "Damage" at the top and put the selection cursor on it instead of the current order and putting the cursor on the "Tank/Healer/Controller" selection first. Make people have to go through the extra step of going to it.

    I've been in different instances where someone queues in as a role, is tagged by the system as that role (noted by the miniature role icon under the "Damage" flame icon) and yet that person has nary a clue about that role. They just checked the box because it was checkable and because it moved them through the queue faster. Yes, a kick is perfectly warranted in that situation because if you do not remove said person from the instance there is no guarantee you will get anyone who can actually play that role when the instance reopens because someone else gets frustrated and leaves.

    The queue system needs some adjusting... and should have some kind of tie to whether or not the player has an armory set up for that role rather than just what power the person has. With no armory it would default to whatever role you are currently in and that's it.
    • Like x 1
  8. Black Prime OG Devoted Player

    Not disagreeing, but trying to teach etiquette on Daybreaks system is like banging your head against a wall.

    I cant really fault a person who has maybe an hour to play and wants to get into something now, not later. It's not fair to that person when queuing both roles will get you in faster. Obviously it's not fair to those who need that player to switch roles either.

    Kind of a losing battle.

    The que system, like pvp, has needed a revamp for years. I just don't see it happening, nor do I see people changing how they que.
  9. myandria Item Storage


    In my opinion, you have to have a HIGH level of controlled tolerance, common sense and a sense of humor when using the random queue/PUG system. Sometimes you get a good or half decent team; sometimes the teams are a 10 mile highway pile up disaster. Sometimes your team mates may get a little frustrated, sometimes they portray a full 3 hour time slot of soap operas.

    Since each team will be different, any kick decision should be based on what is going on at that moment during the mission. What needs to happen more is announcing exactly what players are looking to accomplish for that mission at queue-in, not during or toward the end of the mission. For example, if you pug a 4 man mission and you are told that it is a feat run, THEN you can decide if you want to stick around or not.

    I agree with Black Prime though; the queue system needs a revamp and I hope that the devs will consider it for 2019/
  10. TechWarrior0329 Steadfast Player

    Not sure you can really even say there is an etiquette for the game .. maybe if you belong to a good active league they have certain ways of deciding who does what, on what and when but I'm like you. I blind Q into most everything, and basically what you see in almost every case is what you get.

    Now I do agree that if a player gets on a team based on the fact they "claimed" to be willing to be a support role then they should be ready to actually assume and play that role. Sadly I have also been on teams where that so called Tank, Troll or Healer had no gear for the role, their SP, artifacts, and augments were not set up to support that role and in all honesty.... some that even had the gear and the SP ,augment, artifact set ups had no clue how to actually play the role and the team would have been better off with them, Again its sad but true.. when a mission finally ends and the scoreboard pops and a healer has ZERO listed under heals out...what was he doing during that raid? When your so called tank is hiding behind the entire rest of the team and using ranged attacks that DO grab aggro but now the mobs are shooting at him and shooting straight through.. THE REST OF THE TEAM.. not really effective tanking.

    Now surprisingly , because everyone has this preconceived notion of the HORRORS blind Q, I have walked into missions where the entire team was nothing but DPS. And then before anyone had a chance to even say a word in chat players had switched to Tank, Healer and Troll roles and off we went wrecking havoc on everything in sight. Of course on the other hand I have Qed into raids with 7 DPS and 1 lone, about to be very busy, healer... and before anyone could say anything we were attacking mobs and hoping for the best.

    Personally I will usually just go along with the group.... If we take the time to chat a bit and make a few role changes ,.... GREAT if the group wants to try the 7 DPS thing I'll tag along doing my best and hope a;ll goes well. Some times things will change over time...after a struggle with some mobs you may suddenly see that one guy switching to tank, another switching to troll because we were doing okay until everyone ran out of power. Other times what happens is the Team wipe and then suddenly as fast as they can REZ 4 to 5 players just quit the team because heaven forbid they should have to use strategy or even try to THINK about what we did wrong and how to fix it.. everything is supposed to be over in a flash and if its not they are gone. At that point you can start looking to get roles in to replace the ones that ran off. Longer and more complicated system but hopefully you are getting what you need to survive at that point.
    • Like x 1
  11. Brit Loyal Player

    Thank you for the feedback.

    I have no characters who are fully geared out to fulfill both roles, so I exclusively queue in the role that I wish to play. I rarely ask people to change, regardless of the layout we end up with (I actually ran an Elite Phantom Zone last night with 4 Healers). However, if somebody queued as both roles, and we are also in need of that other role, I do feel as though it's appropriate to point that out. I feel precious little pity for somebody who queues as a tank for Throne of the Dead, but wants to run DPS, while we have no tank at all on the Ares fight.

    In contrast, when somebody tries to encourage me to change into a role which I do not have the gear or build for, I typically just apologize that I am unable to fulfill the role they need for me and then initiate a vote to excuse myself from the instance. I have no intentions of embarrassing myself trying to Tank in DPS gear, or DPS in my Healing suit. But it's so common place that people start immediately demanding people change roles into things they didn't queue for the second that we pop in, when there have been no wipes or problems, that I was starting to worry my laid back approach was actually contrary to the popular community opinion and was going to get me a bad reputation.
  12. High Troller Loyal Player

    I don't need a high level of tolerance when randomly queuing. I use ignore to those that don't play their role they signed up for., and I don't need endless paragraphs to explain that.
  13. Kharhaz Committed Player

    Nice post, and well put. Communities make up a lot of games and for me when this game went downhill I put it down to the LoL crowd. You know the sorts, the kind that punishes people for wanting to play a game the way they want to play rather than how everyone else wants them to play.

    Anyone who has played League of Legends will know, they are being reported before they have even started a game! why? because they are being forced to play a role nobody else wants to play and so that one person (scapegoat) should play it!

    This is where this community comes into its own. Many of us join raids in random groups as a DPS, and we can see for ourself what is needed, we dont need to be asked, we just adapt, I myself tank, and so if nobody else changes to tank, then I shall, no biggy. Nobody has asked me to, I just know it will make it easier, the same with other random players, ok this guy has gone tank, we need a healer, I will heal. League of Legends has the whole setup wrong, it forces players to be nasty to other players with the whole set up, whereas games like DCUO relies on the intelligence of the playerbase to determine what would be best, generally, sort it out ourself!

    Failing the whole player knowing when to change to roles, players ask others to adapt rather than tell them, this makes a difference also.
  14. Wade Spalding Loyal Player

    One point about the specific group: I do expect the options to work properly though. If I play a villain with taskforce x opted out, I do not want to be teamed with heroes nor be put up against villains in PvP nor be put into the hero variant of a map. If I opt out of being placed into "in progress" instances, I do not want to be sent to an instance running for an hour with 200 people on the scoreboard. Yet, the game ignores my settings again and again.

    Apart from that, I agree on your "specific group" statement.

    Nothing. I do not kick for a bad mix if I blindqueue. I also do not urge other players to swap. I do urge them to behave properly and contribute. Door sitters get their kick vote started. So do self-proclaimed "smartsters" etc.

    Just try it with the players provided. DCUO is not rocket science.

    As you stated initially, the proper way to get a specific group setup is build it. If you blindqueue, the proper ettiquette is to deal with what the queue deals you. And as long as they follow ettiquette - contribute, behave etc. - I do not kick, even if they perform poorly. It's a game, I play games to do something in my spare time. If spare time is about getting things done, optimized, ASAP, in a rush etc., I suggest stop gaming and get an appointment at a therapist, chances of being a workaholic in disguise or overcompensating for being a total loser IRL are high. Also, changing to solo player games where the only obstacles are the game and oneself is highly recommended. Or build a group with likewise ill-minded players :D
  15. lordexecution365 Loyal Player

    Well I have some time available so now is good, can't seem to stay away from the game forum for to Long so I have a few things about this topic that I can see will definitely go against the whole discussion so far.

    You have to do you no matter how difficult it may be to restrain the anger towards others the do queue in as a duel role player. If you really need specific roles just form a group.

    If you are using a random system to complete content lower your expectations a whole lot. There is a reason why people would use random queues, 1 of the top reason being, they, don't have any friends on or enough friends or league mates to make a complete group. With a long list of friends I actually find it hard that you can have a long list and hardly none want to run anything. So you may want to revisit the topic yourself.

    Kicking has always been something that can be strongly controversial. It becomes even more controversial when quiet people or people who are not so articulate or versed when grouped with others who are seen as popular, especially when the popular person is funny, heard as a fun type of person or rather making seriously funny jokes and making the run enjoyable to others. Nobody enjoys a party poopers, so even if the run maybe a total or a complete failure, as long as the group is having fun it won't matter to anyone but...

    This is a totally different community with a majority of players that have and are not accustomed to losing or struggling, if one is going to engage in such community then it will serve one well to either gather with or make a whole lot more friends...or turn off your mic, enjoy the ride, and just enjoy the loot, being that most pugs don't care about the story line.