Pro Wrestling Thread

Don't know how many are wrestling fans but I'm going back to the beginning of WWF pay per views and as lame as the first couple Wrestlemanias were, they're far better than the garbage the WWE is putting up today. If you can, get a sub for WWE Network where not only do they have WWF/WWE stuff but also WCW, NWA, AWA, WCCW, Mid South, etc. Even ECW before they were extreme. Right now I'm watching Wrestlemania 2 which they held at 3 different venues(MSG, Rosemont Horizon, LA Forum). The card itself is just so so but as I said it's far more entertaining than the stuff they're doing today.

Yeah, back then, the writers knew how to make good stories, and the athletes knew how to act
Now, the stories are weak and the athletes can't act

Late 90s to early 00s were the best WWE era imo

I believe that was known as the Attitude Era.

They really didn't have writers, they had bookers. Back then, you were given the matchup and the outcome and the wrestlers came up with the match. Bookers might have given suggestions but the wrestlers call the spots. Some used to map out their matches. Randy Savage was notorious for writing down the matches move for move. Also, westlers back then did their own promos off the cuff. Now they're all scripted which is why you don't have any Austin 3:16 moments anymore or this hilarious Owen Hart post match interview("That's why I kicked your leg out of your leg")

If you ever get the chance, watch the Monday Night Wars. I watched it on WWE Network and it's really intriguing. Bischoff had the WWF by the short and curlies until Turner's money train stopped. Then WCW really crapped the bed bringing in Vince Russo which is kind of funny considering Russo was pretty much responsible for the Attitude Era taking off. Go on Youtube and watch shoot interviews with him. I think he's a ******* but he tells some interesting stories.

I'll never forget the time Cena was facing Batista in what I think was a match at Mania. If I remember correctly, Batista had Cena in a bear lock from behind, which Cena powers out of. Both of their arms were outstretched, and I saw Cena call the next move. "Knee to the back. Knee to the back." Which was what Batista did. Nobody can tell me that this stuff isn't scripted.

There were a couple of things that I think really contributed to WWF's turnaround after WCW kept cleaning their clocks in the ratings. The Montreal Screwjob was a huge factor, as that was where Vince started being the "jerk boss" character. What didn't help afterwards was WCW swooping in to sign Bret Hart and then TOTALLY screwing up his involvement in the big Sting/Hogan match at Starrcade.

The other was when WWF was still taping Raw every other week and WCW deciding to spoil the Raw main event one week. Mick Foley was in a championship match and during the Nitro broadcast Tony Schiavone (probably misspelling that last name lol) gave away the ending of the match, adding in a sarcastic comment about Foley as champion being something that would put butts in seats.

Turns out a lot of people switched over to Raw after hearing that, from what I understand. LOL

But yeah, Bischoff's open checkbook and Russo's, um, artistic choices in writing didn't help matters either.

I remember another one where the camera/microphone got too close to the action and broke the illusion a bit. It was right after Ken Shamrock started wrestling in the WWF and he was confronting Shawn Michaels in an in-ring interview. Of course it deteriorates into a brawl and Shamrock fights Michaels into the ropes.

Right before Shamrock does his next move, you could plainly hear Shawn Michaels call out, "clothesline" to Shamrock, and wouldn't you know it that's just what Ken did. LOL

Just as a follow up to Russo, he was one of the big driving forces for the Attitude Era, so it wasn't surprising that WCW went after him in an attempt to regain ratings.

The problem was that Russo didn't really have someone above him like Vince McMahon during his time with WCW. He had a lot more power in WCW and with no real moderating influence to reign in his REALLY bad ideas (David Arquette, anyone?) things went from bad to "what the heck is this?"

Bad Russo ideas? You mean like the Judy Bagwell on a pole match, putting the title on himself, Seven, essentially putting the final nail in WCW? Sometimes I think Vince sent him to WCW to sabotage the company. Seriously, the biggest problem became money. Under Ted Turner, Bischoff had a blank check. That was how he was able to land Hall, Nash, Hogan, Bulldog, Bret Hart, among others. Then when Time/Warner took over, the money dried up so you were stuck with a bunch of duds while the Radicalz, Chris Jericho, Paul Wight, all jumped to WWF while Hogan was fired. Read The Death of WCW. It's a great read and you'll laugh reading just how bad things got near the end.

The outcome might be scripted but the matches aren't or weren't. Usually one wrestler would 'call' the match. If you watch enough wrestling you'll see it. For example, I was watching The Wrestling Classic which was a 1985 PPV after the first Wrestlemania. Aside from the 16 man tournament(won by the Junkyard Dog...by countout), the main event was Roddy Piper vs Hulk Hogan and during the match, the ref took a bump and was down so Piper went and got a chair and potatoed Hogan and with Hogan on his back, you can see him motion for Piper to hit him in the chest and he did. I can give you hundreds of examples including missed spots like Jeff Hardy being late on a spot and Rico yelling "C'mon Jeff, G dammit!" Also, the performers still have to perform well. Wrestling fans aren't stupid and will voice their displeasure and know horrible workers when they see one. If you want an example of such a train wreck I give you THAT Jackie Gayda match:

You forget that when Schiavone spoiled the ending of the Mankind/Rock match he promoted WCW's own championship match between nWo members Hulk Hogan and Kevin Nash which ended up being the infamous Fingerpoke of Doom match which some believe was the beginning of the end of WCW's domination in the Monday Night Wars.

Was meaning writers for the 'feuds' and crap that happened outside the ring, the wrestlers were always the ones in charge of what happened inside the ring

About the only example of a bad 'script' for WCW (probably others, butt this one was telegraphed miles ahead) was the time Vampiro set Sting on fire

That was the first time, ever, that Sting wore a t-shirt, and when he went behind the screen you knew the guy who came out was a stunt actor

You're right, I had forgotten that the Fingerpoke of Doom was on the same night. It was probably that combination of trying to spoil the Raw main event and delivering their own lousy swerve on the fans that started turning fans away from what WCW was offering.

There's no getting around how bad that match was, but I think there's going to be a part of me that feels for Jackie Gayda a bit. They definitely rushed her onto the scene, and even if it wasn't a main event match she was in no way ready for Raw on that night. It took a long time before the first Tough Enough winners made it on to TV or PPV, but Gayda was right out there right away.

I also feel for her because her two most noteworthy Raw appearances were pretty embarrassing. That match is one of them, but the other was when she was ringside for a match and one of her, um, puppies got loose on national TV. (Blame the Lawler commentary for that one LOL) She wasn't a top-tier stellar performer but it'd stink for anyone to have those two moments on TV as their noteworthy ones.

Speaking of Russo, wasn't he responsible for Katie Vick?

I don't know for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if he was responsible for that and the Mae Young/Mark Henry storyline.