Potential Future Change? Art Swapping vs. 4 Art Slots

My solution is keep 3 arts but add a cooldown to going into inventory while in combat. That way some art swapping can be done without it becoming ridiculous/exploitable. Art swapping isn't really intended, just the more recent hardware PCs/PS5s allow for moving between UI a lot more quickly so it has become very much the meta.

Also interesting how the same players pushing for 4th artifact slot or 4th artifact slot passive are the same players saying SWe is too difficult - a raid that can be regularly done in an hour or less. Defining something over/undertuned will be even more difficult than it already is and no-one will be happy with the game or many of its content updates.

There aren't easy solutions to the game's current problems but adding a 4th artifact slot/4th artifact passive would undoubtedly make problems worse.

I hope we never get a 4th slot. I think it would be bad for the game.

• It's good, and fun, to have to make choices.

We're limited in what's on our load out bar, what's in our utility belt, and yes, which artifacts we use. We can swap all of these around but we have to make choices as to how we want to build our characters.

• It's already intimidating for a new player to level 3 artifacts for 1 role, or 6 if you want to play both.

Upping that to 4/8? What a horrible decision that would be for the long-term health of the game. I'm pretty confident that the folks calling for this already have 8 or 10 artifacts already sitting at 200. You can easily get to that point over a year or so given bonus nth metal weeks, sales, and the like. But new players will be put off by this.

There's probably a dozen other reasons why this is a bad idea, I just haven't finished my coffee yet. Please just stop with this.

The only reason I’d be against a cd going into inventory is because we’ve never had one. I do it fairly often while tanking and it’s not to tac swap so I’d hate to see it change. Light tac swapping, things like dks or philo and rat arti, are fine I’d think. They don’t really add a ton, well besides with rage, and the risk can be much higher than the reward. Adding an extra down in elite will just make players more likely to swap tho since now they have an extra chance at staying in the fight. Heavy swapping will become a problem/ may already be to the ones that find content too easy. EoG swaps every 15 to 30secs, trolls constantly swapping, things like that will make balance impossible except maybe in critical if there’s enough going on that swapping isn’t even possible. It’s a tough topic. Even I stay pretty torn on it. Extra benefits are good for the team but most of us that don’t hate it are end game OP. If I was a new player, it would have me thinking it’s time to leave the game. That’s a lot of investment if you were just starting today and wanted to be viable in the next 6 months to a year. That’s a big commitment to make day one.

I use Orb of Arion in my raid build and a lot of people still use Quislet because he trumps Grimorium in various situations.

I think a more stable long term solution, just move it to it's own tab, like Augments or it's own section, like allies are. There is no real reason to have artifacts in our inventory. They aren't account bound. They can't be salvaged like gear. They are pretty much Adaptive Augments or Allies. It would follow the same fortification option and it could be hot swapped, but a little longer to do so. Like when we need to swap the Adaptive Augments for DLC specific benefits.

I’ve always used orb on my sorcery main. And with this elite raid, it’s been straight up magical. Try filling a fire tanks 700k health bar from empty asap while they fight 3 bosses without it. Takes like 10 prios lol. Thing made healing that elite fairly easy. It’s just a different playstyle when equipped. I barely use my prio on him vs my electric toon never stops hitting prio. It’s still one of my fav healer artis tho. Comes out for EoG tho. Give me a 4th slot and I’ll solo anything while putting down 3 greenies.

Personally, tac swap should be "removed" from the game by moving the artifacts to a tab similar to Allies. You can still change your setup mid-fight, but it will require extra steps rather than just having to input quick commands to abuse the system. It could be a tab with all of our episode augments and artifacts, with it always defaulting to augments when opened.

But before even addressing tac swap, I'd want to see artifacts rebalanced, particularly the ones used for swapping. I feel like most of them would just stop being used since they don't give enough benefits outside of their main thing. Philosopher's Stone literally does nothing after you use the supply drop. Dead King's Scepter has something going for it with the orbital assistance, although nowadays that is not strong enough to make the sweaty swappers not see it as swap material.

I remember when artifacts came out , we just had one slot
Then people wanted a 2nd artifact slot.
It came out.
Then people wanted a 3rd artifact slot.
It came out
Then now people wanted a 4th artifact slot ., well if it’s released does it mean that people want a 5th slot ?
I think dcuo need to fixed/reaxed/ updated existing powers in the powersets ,firstly , before we get a fourth slot

Yeah, I think that’s what’s going to hold off any changes for awhile. The amount of testing and changes that would have to be done to make this possible and done well will take a long long time. In the meantime, we can swap. It hasn’t gotten to the point where players are asking other players to do it but lately it has become something that most of the players I run across in elites are doing. Not the “change one every 2secs” style tho I have seen it a few times now. I like that roles can do it tho. Tanks swapping in dks or healers swapping EoG for phr, or trolls dropping philosophers buffs. Teamwork wise, I like it.

I do think it will get to the point tho that dps’s and trolls will be shunned if they aren’t capable of doing it or if they don’t have the artis to swap. And my reasoning behind that thought is say you’re in a group running the newest elite raid. Top dps is a tac swapping beast. Last place is good but not tac swapping. Players always want moar burn and aren’t always aware of how the top burner is making that happen. So they inspect and see that they’re fairly similar toons/ builds. Well then the lower output player must be terrible. Kick. They don’t notice that beasty is swapping 10 artis.

Trolls, the swappers are spoiling groups. Players love a buff troll. But most know that means they can’t dump power so some players change to a less hungry setup. But if they have a troll that’s a power and buff troll then they get the best of both worlds. Plus better than normal debuffs. Trolls make or break an elite run and it’s shown on the board via completion time. Running without a great troll is terrible. Running with a tac swapping one is incredible. Hell, now that I’m writing it out, I’m the spoiled one I spoke of. I really don’t want a non swapping troll in my group ever again lol. My troll doesn’t swap so may just delete him

Or no 4th slot AND stick a cool down on the 3rd slot to heavily restrict but not eliminate tac swapping.

/end-er

100% yes....they will. They will also come in here and complain things are 'too easy' as they walk around with 5 200s and still tac swapping a few times a run to use a 6th or 7th.

IF we are even going to make the whole fourth slot-idea a reality, i'd say atleast a 60 second cooldown should be in place to counter the imbalance issues.

Since it’s just a random conversation, what would you run for your 4th?

My main, easy. EoG. Dps would be quislet/ grim/ source/ EoG. Healer, orb/ page/ phr/ EoG

Tank alt, also easy. Dps Scrap/ quislet/ tetra/ EoG. Tank side: mystic/ manacles/ clarion/ EoG (lowest stats go to 4th slot) tho LO could be a problem which would switch clarion to Everyman or circes mostly for stats.

Troll alt: dps side: tetra/ scrap/ EoG/ solar and troll side tetra/ rao/ claw/ cog

Electric alt: dps would be scrap/ trans/ EoG/ quislet and healer side would be scrap/ trans/ page/ EoG.

My lord I’d be beastly.

People complain about the power cost but I ve never had to spam my priority heal more than twice. Couple it with a well timed PHR charge and it's perfect.

It’s hated on because of bad users for sure. I was one of those my 1st day with it haha. Not anymore. But I was trolling an Omni run yesterday cuz I was bored and there were 2 healers. Sunstone matrix so numbers are low. One healer had used about the same amount of power as anyone. The other healer was always empty. I did what I could. I’m the end, used 12k power vs the other healer (that had more healing out) that had used about 10x less lol. I felt what all those trolls that hate the thing felt.

When Lernaeas Amulet first came out, yeah Orb was an issue. I eventually just had to let people take a knee.

If they add a 4th artifact you can bet that they would make content significantly more difficult to account for the increase in stat/ability. Imagine if you were a pure heal using Trans, Strat, Page, and PHR. You'd need no 2nd healer @ that point. And the same goes for the other roles. Would I like to see a 4th artifact slot? I'll put it like this, I wouldn't complain if they put a 4th slot in and left everything else be. But I also don't care much if they don't put it in either.

If you have something against artifact swapping their is nothing stopping you from not doing it. You don't have to do it to be effective. I've not done artifact swapping and I still beat/keep up with all but the most try-hard .....phallus measuring DPS out there and even then I can still keep up with them. Just because 1 person is limited by ability/platform to swap doesn't mean you should remove it for the rest of the players. Also I play on a VERY low spec PC and I can still artifact swap effectively when I want to.

This is like the jump clip complainers in the days of old. They b****ed and moaned about people jump clipping and doing more damage than they did and they masked their complaints saying it was because they wanted to see the animations. In reality they were mad because they saw their name not @ the top of some stupid leaderboard that doesn't matter anyways.

You say the leaderboard doesn’t matter but plenty of players would disagree. If a player chooses to be a dps then they have chosen to do a role that is just as important as any other. No one wants a weak support role. Same as no one wants a bad burner. The board will tell it like it is. If a player is down 30-40mil after a boss fight, they’re not a helpful teammate and they need to go. That’s just how it is. Tac swapping isn’t necessarily involved in that but refer to my previous post. It is becoming more commonplace and those choosing not to do it may find themselves getting into less groups as it becomes the norm. Which again, whatever. Git gud and all that. I never complained about jump clipping or whatever but there does have to be some semblance of balance to keep the game manageable. It’s already commonplace to see a 60mil gap in damage between top spot and bottom in a pug groups dps board. Those bottom ones will only be even further away once the hood burners start learning how to do more burning. And at that point, the bosses health has to go up to compensate which means that bad burner is even more of a liability. Cause and effect yet again. This game relies heavily on new players just as much (maybe even more) than old so making them weaker may not be great for its health.

The devs are in the usual “tough place” and only they can do anything about it if they do choose. They can leave it as is and hope players get bored of doing it which is unlikely. They can do something about it and make a bunch of players angry. They never get to make easy choices. Till it affects end product, it’s not a big deal. Meaning as long as the testers stay away from using it while difficulty is decided then it should be fine. If testers start doing it in raid runs, that’s a pretty large problem. Testing new artis with tac swapping needs to be done tho to make sure nothing gets weird with some random combos. It’s a lot of work really and personally I think it’s pretty impressive that the game is as balanced as it is.

How said is it that we as a community are not happy with 3 artifact slots. That we need a fourth. Holy Cow Batman do you not do enough damage as it is? For some insane reason you need to do more?

The more damage we do the more health bosses have, one shots, medics, sappers, and other mechanics they have to put in game to slow us down in content.

I for one do not believe that when a raid is done we need DPS' doing over 100 million in damage. Devs need to nerf the amount of damage we do. Do any of us need to crit at 200k or more? Really?

You know they only allow us to do that so we can feel good about ourselves. "Wow I just critted for 300k!!!" or "I just did 1158 billion in damage in that raid!!"

Just had to stop here for a sec and mention that it's a LOT different on Xbox right now. I've actually been bashed and called a trash troll the other day in a global chat because I won't swap tetra and cog as often as people like. The strong biased judgement going on is really bad over here.

So you were right in your next paragraph, it's already happening.