Please improve LFG algorithms

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Kilbane, Apr 25, 2021.

  1. Kilbane Active Player

    Was trying to run Royal War 4man elite, started out with a proper group Tank, Healers, 2dps. Healer D/c'd.. then we spent the next 20minutes getting DPS after DPS. This content cannot be ran without a healer. Please make the On Duty LFG system a bit smarter, especially for elite. If you don't have a healer and tank in a group it's a waste of every ones time.
    • Like x 3
  2. KHALONofOGUN 10000 Post Club

    There's nothing wrong with the self-respecting player blind queues Elite content when it's new. While the system is built to allow that, smart players form groups. Also, while it's less than ideal to run Elite content (even an alert) without all of the proper roles, it can be done. Granted, not by many, but it can be done.
    • Like x 2
  3. Lightnings Revenge Committed Player

    You must like seeing people fail. It needs to be updated so groups can get the correct role. Lfg should also have a feat hunting feature. Stop trying to tell people what they want and need. Not everyone has a group to run elite content with... even if you build a group people can still leave or disconnect meaning you need a replacement.
    • Like x 3
  4. StealthBlue Dedicated Player

    There is a setting for role optional alerts, make sure everyone in the group has that turned off before you go in. It forces a group makeup with one of each role or at least someone that queued as each role. If you'd all had that setting set correctly, you would at least have gotten people with healing power sets that queued as healers. Of course, you still could have ended up with someone that can't heal and doesn't have any healer gear, but your chance of getting someone that's another tank or troll power would have been zero.
    • Like x 4
  5. Dark Soldier Dedicated Player

    What kind of comment is this. The game makes you pick what role you want to que in as, therefore the que shouldn’t pop until its a full team. And if your queing into a mission it shouldnt let you come in if your not the needed role.

    Next, he said the dude disconnected. How does that have anything to do with forming groups through lfg. Ive lfg into missions and my internet gave out, actually until recently i couldnt even run content on release day without disconnecting, and i used lfg for those groups. A person can leave a group even if its formed.

    The op is 100% the system does need to be improved, also i que into missions that are in progress despite having that turned off in my settings, that needs to get looked at also.

    Im just surprised you didnt tell him to get a league like you usually do.

    Haha its funny that you called this a proper group, had the mission went on do you think you would have needed a troll? Wouldnt a proper group include a controller?
    • Like x 2
  6. Dragonnes Committed Player

    Settings => Gameplay => Allow Role-Optional Alerts => Off.


    There you go. The game now will try to find one of each role.

    By queue'ing blindly... well "you pays your money and you takes your chances".
    Even if your queue pops with all 4 roles, it doesn't mean those players are able to perform their roles well.

    If somebody leaves or disconnect, vote NO and invite someone according to your needs.
    It's more efficient to find players in LFG chat. It doesn't guarantee you won't get disconnected or anything... but at least it decreases your chances of getting newbies.

    Too many people try to get into elite without even knowing what elite means. :oops:
    • Like x 5
  7. nawanda Dedicated Player

    I don’t think the OP’s suggestion is without merit, but in reality, in an elite alert, if that happened to me, I wouldn’t really want a random healer anyway. I wouldn’t be reopening matchmaking, I’d be asking people or using LFG.

    Having said that, I recognise that the game isn’t designed around the way I play. If people want to do elite content with randoms, and they lose the healer, then yeah, the game should try and find them another random healer.
    • Like x 3
  8. Shalayah Committed Player

    Hopefully you have role optional alerts turned off
  9. Shalayah Committed Player

    The instance in progress setting is not meant to queue you in at the very start. It’s meant to get you in before the group reaches the first boss so you don’t miss out on rewards. There are times where I’ve gotten into instances in progress but usually it’s because they’re stuck at the first boss.

    Also you’re completely correct how 2 dps, healer and tank isn’t a proper group setup. Maybe one of those DPS players have a healing power thus the game not looking for an additional healer? The LFG chat is there for a reason. Players need to start using it sometimes. If you open instance for matchmaking. You aren’t guaranteed to get what you need all the time especially if role optional alerts isn’t turned off by everybody.
    • Like x 2
  10. Kilbane Active Player

    Thank you for taking the time to put up a screenshot. Yes, I do have that turned off, though honestly I never really knew what it was, but I assume other folks in the group did not have it turned off, so it didn't have any effect.

    The LFG channel is there yes, but that's a bit like telling someone to ride a bicycle to get groceries instead of driving a car. The car (in this case On Duty ) could use a slight tune up, but it's works for the most part.

    Yes.. a" true proper" group would have a controller, but 2 dps will at least have a chance to succeed,. 3 or 4 DPS will not. Proper in this case meant more than a slightly higher chance than a snowballs in hell at completing the content.

    Now as to the folks who insist "Only Newbs queue On-Duty Elite" Yes... it is called "Elite" but that doesn't mean it is or should be exclusive to elitist. I've been playing off and on for 8 years or so. I play quite a lot, but I'm not a hardcore player. I don't have a league, and I would not suggest this game to any of my friends because the cost to catch up Artifacts) is too high. I watch youtube videos for mechanics and meta builds for my power, I get my CR up near the cap of non-elite, so the only thing left is to run elite to get Rep to progress further. Elite should be part of progression, not some exclusive club.

    Yes, On-Duty Elite queue is hit/miss, mostly miss. Many people do queue not knowing how extreme the jump in difficulty the jump is. I blame Daybreak for this, the CR requirement for On-Duty is really not correct, not even close. The min/max range needs adjusting imo. 327 CR in elite Flashpoint content is too low, and the reward range should be higher. Simply putting "This is a lot harder" in the Alert/Raid description doesn't help when they can still queue and really not have much of a chance of succeeding.

    Now.. as to people who say stuff like "No self respecting player blind queues for elite" are part of the elitist problem in this game, and it is driving "casual" (not to be confused with bad) players away. There should not be a technical reason why I can't On-Duty queue Elite and find 3 other stubborn enough players to beat their heads against it until we win. On-Duty throwing DPS into a DPS full party is a technical problem. It's pretty awesome when I get folks in group who actually want to play with other folks and learn the fights instead of demand you know everything day 1 and then talk **** about newbs instead of trying to explain or work with the group. I generally find On-Duty way more enjoyable than being drug though at max speed just scrambling to keep up with the group, or being talked down to by Elitist that think "Elite" is somehow exclusive to a specific group of players/playstyle and at the same time too easy.

    Or maybe I just need to "Get gud bruh", spend more $$$, and stop que-queing (see what I did there?) ;)
  11. KHALONofOGUN 10000 Post Club

    First off people need to drop that "elitist" bs. At no point did I say or imply that anyone should be excluded. Anyone reading that needs to improve their reading comprehension and get that chip off their shoulder. Seriously, that kind of attitude does nothing for the conversation.

    All I pointed out is that players who want the best chance of success (which I think is safe to assume is what everyone wants) will play smart. Playing smart in this case means forming a group with the roles you want/need. The overwhelming majority of players form groups, especially for new content. Healers in particular can get picked up easy from LFG. So the number of healers blind queueing new content is VERY small (this doesn't even take into account time of day). The algorithm can't give you a healer if there are no healers queuing up. How hard is that to understand? Why does that have to be a thing about elitism???

    This game has had and continues to have a serious shortage of Support role players. For every healer/troll/tank there are a dozen DPSes. Every group that blind queues content is competing with others for the very same small pool of players. If there are 5 groups blind queuing and they all need a healer and only 2 healers blind queue, that leaves 3 others to just sit there twiddling their thumbs for who knows how long. This is a simple math issue, nothing to do with excluding anyone, nothing to do with artifacts or any other silly non-sense. Then there's the fact that a lot of those healers are usually running the raids, especially elite. The system can't give you something that isn't it's giving you the next best thing (another body that might possibly be a healer powerset).
    • Like x 5
  12. BUDOKAI101 Committed Player

    Not gonna lie here but if someone with 600sp and is fully geared should be able to pug elite if his placement of stats are bang on. Now because stats revamp is about mechanics and your experience. Your gonna need an experienced group for sure. because dcuo isn't really an rpg it's missing alot of key factors to make the game really challenging and make stats matter. Stats revamp is based on knowledge of mechanics as a group. once you have that down they can come out with 900 levels of Elite. you and that same group will wipe the floor with it.
  13. Shalayah Committed Player

    What was that famous quote? You can take a horse to water but you can’t make it drink? That’s what this situation sounds like... LFG was created for a reason. There’s your opportunity to find that healer you so desire, but you’d rather let the pug gods decide your fate. At that point it’s your fault you can’t get a healer not the game’s.
    • Like x 1
  14. Shalayah Committed Player

    This is common sense lmfao.
    • Like x 1
  15. KHALONofOGUN 10000 Post Club

    You would think that, but people would rather take offense than look at what's actually being presented.
    • Like x 1
  16. Kilbane Active Player

    Yes.. it is "common sense" but the original point of this post is I'd rather sit for 20minutes waiting for a person who actually wants to heal to queue into on-duty as a healing role than get 10 DPS or DPS/off heals. I'm simply asking for the in game tool to better facilitate making well rounded groups, especially for Elite Content, than the archaic spam that is LFG channel.

    I stand by my elitist comment in general. I did not direct it straight at you as you seem to have taken offense, but that attitude is pretty prevalent on this forum as well as in game in my experience. I took no offense to your comment and It's good that your experience has been different.

    Anyway I've said what I am going to say, maybe a dev will take it into consideration and look into refining the On-Duty LFG system to increase everyone's chance of success.
  17. willflynne 10000 Post Club

    Ok, this is coming from a lowly little scrub of a solo player who generally avoids the majority of group content in the game. Far from elite or elitist.

    But that "archaic spam that is LFG channel" IS the tool you're looking for. If you so desperately want one particular role or even a player with a particular power set that you think would work best, even I know you'd go to LFG for your best shot at finding what you're looking for.
    • Like x 2
  18. Lightnings Revenge Committed Player

    What did I say when you see one you see the other... when its something they dont like they the main one to complain. Lfg does need a upgrade. Better ui for better matchmaking you should be able to choice what you need not use a random system that bring in what ever it chooses.
  19. Arwen Skywalker Loyal Player

    To correct, there's no algorithm to begin with when it's consensus-based. This isn't YouTube or Twitter that tailors content with our likings.

    OP thinks the game should automagically force someone to play the particular role he wants, when it's people should queue to begin with.
    • Like x 1
  20. KHALONofOGUN 10000 Post Club

    The whole elitist thing you brought up has no place in this thread, since that wasn't the actual issue you were having. Bringing that up when it's out of place only creates unnecessary drama.

    Secondly, you have missed the point of all of my responses to you. The problem isn't with the algorithm or the whole matchmaking system. The real issue is that there aren't enough people in the particular role you're looking for queueing up for the content (which in this case happens to be new).

    Say that they change the matchmaking system so that it does exactly what you want (give you the missing role and nothing else), you're under the impression that you'd be waiting up to maybe 20 minutes or so. The reality is you would likely be waiting hours on queue with nothing popping up because a) most support players join pre-made groups for new content instead of blind queueing, thereby reducing the pool of perfect candidates and b)those very players are likely to be running with their leagues/friends or running raids as well as their dailies/weeklies. No matter which way you slice it, the demand for those blind queueing roles will be far higher than the actual available supply.

    To put it in simpler terms: if there are 10 groups blind queueing and all 10 need a healer, but only 2 healers are blind queueing at any given time, that will leave 8 groups sitting there waiting...and waiting...and waiting. Your solution to your problem will only serve to highlight the real issue...not enough people blind queuing as a support role (to actually play that role).

    If you wish to continue believing that an algorithm can solve the problem you're choosing to ignore, so be it. I'm glad you took no offense to my comment, since there was nothing to be offended by, and I never mean any offense.
    • Like x 5