Please disable healing barrels in pvp 1v1, 2v2; Bring back 3-tap rule for pvp

Discussion in 'Battle of the Legends (PvP)' started by loupblanc, Jun 10, 2020.

  1. loupblanc Dedicated Player

    Please disable healing barrels in pvp 1v1, 2v2 and bring back 3-tap rule for pvp.

    2v2 Batcave now is just about healing barrels, rushing healing barrels. Rushing healing barrels didn't use to be a problem, because out of combat health regeneration was fast enough, and counter/cc immunity rules in pvp were such that 1v2, 1v3 was possible with superior counters and 3-tap rule was consistent and shields could be bursted through with raw damage.

    Now, out of combat health regeneration isn't fast enough, counter/cc immunity rules in pvp have changed again, shields are strong as hell, 3-tap rule is gone so the rushing healing barrels tactic cannot be disregarded even with raw damage.

    Only 2v2 mode I queue is Batcave. I assume same problem exists for the other 2v2 maps (Inner Sanc, Ace Chem) as well as the 1v1 Shadowlands map.

    Thank you.
    • Like x 4
  2. Catastrophic Repercussion Committed Player

    I mostly play LPvP, Shadowlands' and Star Labs' barrels were always working properly yet I never had any big issues with it,
    but I didn't expect after the fix it's Ace 4v4 that they are ruining.
    Whoever gets it can heal the full group and allows for them to better gank on people, especially worse when the SC massively tips the scale to the already overpowered Two-Face and Bane.
    I think when even LPvP gets severely affected, they need to be addressed asap.

    P.S. Last I check when a barrel is knocked out of your opponent's hands then you destroy it, it will still heal them for being the last to hold it. Yuck.
    • Like x 2
  3. Ryazan Committed Player

    Using those barrels feels like cheating.
    • Like x 3
  4. Stanktonia Committed Player

    I agree with everything except the 3 tap rule, the 3 tap encouraged hyper turtling, the 5 tap rule is only bad because of rifle and shield
  5. loupblanc Dedicated Player

    Ah. Well, in older iterations of LPVP, Two-Face and Bane benefited most from the rushing healing barrels tactic.

    Back then, Two-Face could get multiple instances of Harvey Domination (Blue Supercharge), to spam Bullet Barrage without being interrupted, although you could still get CCed out of it, which is why to this day, I still use breakout trinket first before the Bullet Barrage spam. 5 tap combo was not worth it for the damage plus the 3-tap rule was in effect.
    Now, Two-Face Domination (Red Supercharge) is popular. Spam 5 tap combo whilst using Bullet Barrage (even if its interruptable) and Acid Barrel.

    Bane Elbow Slam in Supercharge form was also not vulnerable to block in the old days. But, the 3-tap rule made it harder to get to, plus, if I recall correctly, the damage was not as good as it is now currently. Plus, if I recall correctly (may be wrong here) it was single target damage. Now it looks to have some AOE, hits like a truck, and looks to be frontal 180.

    So in the old days, healing barrel rushing was common, but as I said before, combat health regeneration was fast enough, and counter/cc immunity rules in pvp were such that 1v2, 1v3 was possible with superior counters and 3-tap rule was consistent and shields could be bursted through with raw damage. Thus, it was entirely possible and doable to solo hold a node for a decent to long period even against 2 people.
    • Like x 1
  6. Stanktonia Committed Player

    They buffed the barrels waaaaay too much, especially in Lpvp, it’s ridiculous, they’re healing far too much, 800+ per tick, characters can barely put out that kind of damage in legends. The healing that the barrels gave were fine before hand, the problem wasn’t that the barrels were healing too low, the issue was that they weren’t working at all.
    • Like x 2
  7. loupblanc Dedicated Player

    Using any legends character with shield - heck there are characters with both shield and healing - or Two-Face or Bane is basically like using a cheat code.
  8. loupblanc Dedicated Player

    I was around for the discussion on changing the 3-tap rule. I mentioned 4-tap would be acceptable. I never envisioned it would be 5-tap and that Rifle and Shield combos would be the hardest hitting combos.

    Actually, Brawling also became super strong with the 5-tap rule, and Backfist being one of the strongest single target combos and being a short combo of only tap hold hold. Plus, you can tap to infinity with Brawling if playing safe.
    • Like x 1
  9. Bantos2 Level 30

    The 3 taps on block was changed because it made screenblocking OP for 4v4s and 5v5s.
    If I remember well there was a discussion about it.
    The only reason 5 taps seems bad to people is because rifle's 5th tap is not blockable and people abuse it.
    • Like x 1
  10. Brit Loyal Player

    Honestly, I preferred in Legends when the barrels were broken and did nothing. I had always thought that this was intentional to level the playing field between characters with healing and those without. When they "fixed" it, healing became super obnoxious and the barrels became half the battle.
    • Like x 2
  11. loupblanc Dedicated Player

    It seems to me at least, that when they "fixed" it, somehow the healing from the barrels looks to be more than before., in previous iterations.

    That‘s why its a big big problem now, because like I said before in my 1st post,out of combat health regeneration isn't fast enough now, counter/cc immunity rules in pvp have changed again, shields are strong as hell, 3-tap rule is gone so the rushing healing barrels tactic cannot be disregarded even with raw damage.

    In the old era, healing barrel rushing was pretty standard, but it was not a big problem at all really.
  12. loupblanc Dedicated Player

    Apologies for the late reply.

    Original thread on 3 tap rule change - PvP Adjustments - 01/22/2016, pre server merge. Curiously, I was the only one asking whether it could be 4 tap instead of 5. I foresaw that there would be multiple unintended unforeseen consequences in my first post in that thread.

    The TLDR long sequence of events that actually lead to the 3 tap block rule change (if memory serves), is first the AOE aspect of weapon taps being increased, weapon taps being AOE and not being able to be changed to single target easily, AOE BB aspect of Handblasters, then ppl complaining so AOE BB of Handblasters was removed, then ppl complaining so devs suggested to change 3 tap rule to 5 tap rule. Screenblocking was kinda of an issue in Arenas. People sometimes would try to abuse it, using characters with the smallest body type, using obnoxious skins to create visual pollution or low key colors on skins to hide and do their screenblocking.

    If memory serves (cos I may be wrong since this is years ago), Rifle 5 tap melee of Two Face specifically in Legends (as opposed to Rifle 5 tap melee in Arenas) was actually always not vulnerable to block for the longest time. Both Two Face and John Stewart don't actually use the same Rifle weapon like Arena, in that you could only access the Overhead Smash via 3 tap hold, whereas in PvE and Arena Pvp, Rifle Overhead Smash is 1 tap hold or up to 4 tap hold. But back then, no one really bothered to go Rifle 5 tap melee when using Two Face or John Stewart cos of screenblocking and the damage not being worth it.

    No one anticipated the weapon damage of Two Face Rifle 5 tap melee to go up, or Shield damage in Legends Pvp to go up, or Bane 4 tap hold Elbow drop to go up in damage (and mind you that hold combo was always not vulnerable to block since forever).

    Its just logical that if healing barrels are there in pvp (Arenas/Legends), they should be allowed to function as per normal. Any balancing should come from either changing healing amounts, or number of barrels or respawn rate, and not just disabling the healing barrels and leaving them there, because it would be counter-intuitive to have non-functioning healing barrels.

    So after having non-functioning healing barrels in Legends Pvp for a long time, and then the devs saying ok then we are fixing and re-enabling them, but since that change went live immediately instead of undergoing testing checks on Test Server, it has become a big problem now, due to changes in Shields, counter-immunity, out of combat health regen, no more 3-taps.
    • Like x 1
  13. Samantha Christiano Active Player

    3, 4 and 5 tap rule affects the weapons in giving them more chances of infinite tap spam. Currently the Rifle.
    3, 4 and 5 tap affects rifle, dual pistol, hand blaster.
    When 4 and 5 tap rule, those weapons were affected.
    Which is why Amon Sur claw is no longer easily blockable because of the 5 tap rule
    It was blockable before with the 3 tap rule.
    • Like x 2
  14. Samantha Christiano Active Player

    Devs haven't updated pvp with anything. But they can still do some competitive features.
    I don't agree with you on disabling heal barrels, nor I disagree.
    Since PvP isn't well in our control for more competitive play as for the heal barrels.
    Isn't something I can comment on. Since PvP hasn't been well in response of our feedback for the past few years.
    Heal barrels can stand as it is for average players vs skilled. The activity of PvP is much less than even of casual. It's hard enough getting wins and feats done.
    Not that feats is needed with now over 500 skill points can be done without needing PvP.

    But with disabling heal barrels. Devs can do a competitive feature in this in the on duty.
    Disabling heal barrels universally can affect average players. But still, PvP isn't even in the skill points needed factor for pve.
    But for the more skilled players wanting more competitive features done.
    Is something devs can definitely do.

    Disable heal barrels.
    Forbidding Some Legends Characters.
    If legends characters can't be forbidden. Then Legends Characters that are forbidden in competitive play because of some OP abilities. Those abilities cooldowns are changed. Slightly increased.

    How to put it on duty? Another Tab. Legends PvP (Competitive)
    A separate PvP content within PvP.

    Feedback ideas is better given as a separate general option feature for all players to play. Without it affected the main content that puts other players in different comforts and mixed feedback against others.
    This way it's an easy feature for players to give feedback in this feature for competitive play without it affecting the normal content that other players won't like and can argue against.

    With the also, competitive options can be similar to selecting roles ui.
    So using that UI replacing roles with competitive options.
    * Disable heal barrels
    * 7 seconds respawn Timer (At all times)
    * Forbidden Legends or Increased Cooldowns in certain abilities

    Giving players more control in this competitive play with our feedback.
    Queuing with these options selected puts us against players with same selected options.

    This can be done without any updates and changes and balances to be done
    If people can up vote this. Maybe devs can give their answer to this.
    • Like x 1
  15. ThePhilosophy Loyal Player

    Learn to be logical and create a middle ground: Getting rid of the barrels would upset the weak players that need them.

    The healing is obviously out of control at 700 a tick. Its need to be like 200 or something around there.

    Pick a number and advocate for it.
  16. ShadowTheHunter Well-Known Player

    I completely agree with taps being changed back to the three-tap rule. A skilled player using an infinite tap playstyle with weapons like brawling or dual wield can be very oppressive. The three-tap rule will probably neutralize most Two-Face players, but 5 tap should still be blockable or otherwise have its damage reduced. Same with Bane's Primary Attack (four-tap hold), it should be blockable or have reduced damage. I personally would not miss barrels for a second if they were completely disabled. Right now, if the other team uses them it gives them a massive advantage. Yes, the healing could be reduced, but assuming all opponents in a match are of similar skill, it's a free advantage that can still determine a match outcome. It's a free advantage period when you boil it down.

    Perhaps they could have it to where barrels do not heal while in combat, only while out of combat, assuming they will not change the current out-of-combat regen rate. This way players will have to decide between leaving the node to get their health up or staying on the node.
  17. thedemonocus Loyal Player

    PVP is so broken they should just remove it altogether and be done with it.
  18. Radstark New Player

    As someone that has never done and will never do PvP, I don't think that would be a good idea since there are people that play mostly because of it. But it does look like it needs to be remade from scratch. At this point rebuilding it would be better than a bandaid.
    • Like x 2
  19. SsjTerror New Player

    They should give a update in pvp and also give more levels or probably remove marks of valor and put as source mark wich it is the classic Marks Of Victory, it's my opinion you can agree or not
  20. Kimone Devoted Player

    Barrel spam sucks, but healing barrels equalize healing spam, which - when one sided - sucks more. Maybe slow down the load frequency or revisit where they are on a map to make it harder for a single team to maintain control of them. Since they are fairly accessible from the start they're not exactly unfair, just... something you'll always have to consider in a fight.

    Also, the three tap rule was a little much - but so is guaranteed Block Counter after a string. Maybe split the mean and call it a day at 4 or 5 blocked shots in a row, though even that kind of craps on long-string combo weapons like Dual Weapon and Shield. So I'm not sold on that one either, even if it overbearingly favors my "home row" weapon.

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