I was having a discussion with a leaguemate about running content to see if it would make a difference between 1 Tank 1 Healer 2 Trolls in a raid and 4 DPS's in let's say Artifact vs 2 of each roles as far as time completion. My leaguemate believes it would, as the team with the most burners would complete it faster and I with the group with 2 of each role completing it with about the same time. As I thought about it, it dawned on me the support roles would be lacking and definitely could not put up the damage that 2 dps's currently do in this raid even with bad burners and here was his argument in a summary below. Support roles cannot be compared to the 2 bottom DPS's in a group(where top DPS puts out, uh 11 mil 2nd DPS 10.9 mil 3rd DPS 10.5mil and the 4th 10 mil an imaginary example). The healers mainly go straight resto ingame no healers have mix mods while at least 1 troll has mixed mods and nobody uses 2 Tanks(except in survival mode, even the lowest DPS would lead the support group by a mill). The only thing that got me as far as my argument goes was there are not many Healers specced with dual mods that would help with burn, even the batteries couldn't make up the distance and to ask random people to change there mods is out of the question for me. I am not saying a hybrid as far as Tanks/Healers/Trolls gearing half tank or other role and half DPS, I am speaking the mods in gear only(Straight Tank/Troll/Healer gear with mix mods resto/prec or might in sockets that they normally mod straight resto) and the Troll with the highest P.O.T still being P.O.T Troll. So I bring this to you for this challenge whether you have a group or you would like to give it a go. I am on the USPS server and I play with the PS4 but I will run with others on the three because the control group can have either the 3 or 4 as well. Oh yeah, if you do give this a run maybe have a person post the vid with maybe the scorecard showing the downs included.
The group with 4 dps may end much more faster and smooth run because once you know the mechanism those raids are cake, if want a more balanced challenge better make both groups not counter the bosses neither stuck them in any corner.
I am not saying the content would be more difficult just that I believe the support roles could meet the challenge of the missing DPS's and finish about the same if not faster. I don't know if I would have them change a thing it would probably slow the 4 DPS group down anyway. While the other group wouldn't need to stick the boss if everybody stay focus and do there role.
Would it make a difference if the 2 DPS's were the same for each run or 2 different groups? Seems to me there could be a change as far as that part as some DPS's cannot produce the same type of damage as others already. Like having the lower 2 DPS in the 2 of each role group would increase there burn as the 2 other DPS's being excluded from the run.
Has anybody tried this yet? Before they were over geared for content and the support roles using mixed mods, that is.
Assuming you account for the DPS skill.. some DPSes are better than others and can carry 2 average ones.. with that in mind I can already tell a difference when running 5 dps 1 tank 1 heal 1 troll compared to a 4 dps set up with 2 trolls. The group with 4 dps will trump the 2-2-2-2 set up by a long shot.. This is because you don't get as much utility from the 2 respective support roles since one tank, one healer and one troll can keep aggro, health and power up just as well as 2 of each can. Even if you go hybrid, in terms of completion time the 2-2-2-2 set up will take substantially longer
To actually be clearer I'm not speaking of a regular type of 2-2-2-2 group but a 2-2-2-2 group where the support roles are modded for damage as well as their role. And yes accounting for the DPS skill the only thing I cannot account for is the support roles because what I am referring to would be out of what they normal do so there skill level would be lacking, well maybe lacking the additional burn may go to there head and would definitely have to be very disciplined at the roles lol. Which is why I say the group of support should be able to eat the run up being they do not have to stick bosses nor wait for player spacing.
5-1-1-1 / 4-2-1-1 > 2-2-2-2 Hybrid spec group The damage gained from those extra 2-3 DPS will outweigh any hybrid support/damage spec
yeah, there is no way that a 2-2-2-2 group is going to get things done faster than a 5111 or a 4211. my personal favorite group composition for raids is 4-2-1-1. with a good tank, healing is minimal. with a good healer and tank, no one should be in danger. and with 2 trolls, everyone can do their roles to the best of their ability with no need to "hold back" to not strain the troll. as a DPS, having 2 trolls is like a prayer being answered..lol as a rage tank, same thing, I know will never die! damn, I love you trolls!!
First let's make it a true DPS raid vs. a 2-2-2-2 raid. 1 Tank, 1 Healer and 1 trolls and 5 DPS is a true DPS raid group. 2 Tank, 2 Healer, 2 Trolls and 2 DPS is a correctly split group. Where do we place them? Artifacts, Necro or Lockdown? Looking at the first group you would be asking a lot of the support roles. The healer and troller would each have issues maintaining health and power dependent upon damage out by enemies and power burn by the DPS. As for trolling, I do have issues solo trolling T6 raids as some full 94 players have yet to realize what WM is or how to properly use the power AM. Even with an experienced group the troll and healer may have some issues, though not much with the right soda and trinkets. The 2-2-2-2 may not have a damage issue if all of the supports roles use multi-colored mods to get more than just the primary stats; the same can be said for SP distribution. I know when I pug I can be one of the top 4 DPS with a 5 DPS group as a troll. SP and gear is why I end up as one of the top 4 DPS players, go figure. When looking at the current content, the 2-2-2-2 group would fare better in Artifacts and Lockdown than the 1-1-1-5 group or even a 1-1-2-4 group. First, the 2-2-2-2 would have no issues with power heal or agro when splitting up…in Lockdown, one tank can pull the adds and the other can focus on agro from the boss. Power and group control effects would not be an issue with two controllers. Health bars will be full more often due to 2 healers. I have yet to run a 2-2-2-2 group. I typically see the last two groups, very rarely do I now go into a Raid where there is more than a solo troll. 1 Tank – 2 healers – 2 Controllers – 3 DPS 1 Tank – 1 healers – 2 Controllers – 4 DPS 1 Tank – 2 healers – 1 Controllers – 4 DPS 1 Tank – 1 healers – 1 Controllers – 5 DPS
This is exactly my thought on any run as well so I was saying to use Artifact that way the group with the normal setup can at least get a fair run at it. I also see the 2nd group having little to no issues with power, health, aggro and damage. The last part is the only issue that I can see that would hinder the group of 2 of each roles as there is virtually no runs setup as describe because most of the players are setup to run solo (especially healers) so they would lack experience as far as running in a team where everybody is modded to deal damage plus there primary role in content which would give the first group a slight advantage of which they would need. The SP would have to be dual would have to have there primary role as well as damage (at least as many crits they can get after there role).
This could probably be a good idea for a FNL challenge as well to see if the supports meet the challenge.
