Passive Buffs to make 2-2-2-2 viable

Still waiting on a logical argument that renders this idea unviable, by the way.

a logical argument ? from this forum ? poor Torikumu....thats asking alot.
i personally love the OP"s idea.

Me too...

Me three!!

It's not that you haven't heard a logical argument against it, it's that you ignore it and/or don't accept it.

To put it simply: giving a buff to only one setup is unfair, you automatically penalize anyone who doesn't play like you. That's all I need to say to completely destroy the whole suggestion. Make every group receive an equal buff, and you may have something, but even that would only make the game easier.

That argument is invalid due to the alert setup with 4 dps which is already not fair to balanced groups.

Knowing the problem we're trying to address would make you understand why your opinions are irrelevant in relation to the original post. Yet here we are, 11 pages on and still militant against an idea and concept you simply do not understand. The state of this community in areas is ridiculous.

i get it. you are entrenched in your personal viewpoint.let me ask you this.. is there a problem with healers reaching t5,t6 when every one wants only a solo healer? how much harder for a tank? don't you see the community must find a way to fix this? remember when there was a troller shortage? please try to look at the health of the game, being short sighted is a good way to end up dpsonline.

I don't remember saying that was right either. That would be a good point if I was for the buff, or if a lot of people were for it, but every time I've seen someone mention it, people's been against it.

Oh, look! You didn't ignore me, I feel betrayed. Nice way to avoid arguments and stay in your own bubble.

There's nothing that can make an unfair advantage suddenly turn fair, unless you can somehow demonstrate that the other groups similar buff already. Building up a group that doesn't work is not a good justification for an unfair buff. Also, the "problem" you're trying to fix doesn't get fixed by handing out unfair buffs.

Yes, my personal viewpoint that concerns everyone. I know, it's terrible when someone defends fairness.

Is there a problem with healers/tanks reaching T5 when everyone wants a solo healer/tank? No. "No" as in everyone clearly doesn't want a solo healer/tank, it's been demonstrated multiple times over and over again in this topic. Also, no to the first part of the question, it's not a problem. It could be a problem if everyone was against teaching others, but even that's not the case.

There is absolutely nothing to fix, you can improve things, but there's nothing to fix. Unfair buff doesn't fix or improve anything, it only makes things unfair.

Also, troller shortage? There's always been a troller "shortage". Same goes for all support roles. You may have noticed that every power type can do damage role, but only four can tank, heal or troll. That automatically makes the support role pool smaller.

Question: Are groups stacking healers in order to bypass mechanics, remove difficulty from content and having content specifically designed to challenge groups stacking healers?

Answer: No, therefore you don't need to buff healing in your imbalanced group as you are rejecting the perks of a second healer in order to boost the damage your group does.

Question: Are groups stacking tanks in order to bypass mechanics, remove difficulty from content and having content specifically designed to challenge groups stacking tanks?

Answer: No, therefore you don't need to buff tanking in your imbalanced group as you are rejecting the perks of a second tank in order to boost the damage your group does.

Bottom line is, my idea is designed to make running a specific formation viable and work in content which is being catered towards groups that stack DPS. Your argument is that you want to be indestructible cyborgs who deal incredible amounts of damage if a balanced group is getting an upgrade to boosting their damage out so that going forward it is feasible and viable to run a balanced group in raid content.

What you fail to realise is that my idea is about bringing 2-2-2-2 in line with other formations that the community prefer to run instead, thus making it an option. Where as your demand for buffs to be granted to all groups does NOT resolve the solution. Do you think people will be enticed into running 2-2-2-2, if we're buffing your 5-1-1-1/4-2-1-1/3-3-1-1 formation? No.

Please use logic before responding to a topic you clearly have no idea what it's about. Like I said, we are now on page 11 and you are still just as militant against the idea because you do not understand it. This will be the last time I respond to you, unless this topic reaches 21 pages and you're still spouting your nonsensical drivel.

I and many others have explained very clearly what my suggestion is and why it needs to be brought into the game. Many people have agreed with it so far. You selfishly don't agree with it because it doesn't benefit you. Give up. You have no argument.

Your argument is not logical. It is flawed on virtually all the points that have already been brought up. I feel no need to actually explain to you any longer. You seem to be exhibiting one of two traits.
1. You simply are not understanding
2. You simply don't want to understand and instead rely on saying that it is unfair, but you are completely neglecting the issue that "support roles" get the shaft in favor of more DPS.

Do you think people will be enticed into running 2-2-2-2 given these buffs, or will they try it a few times, realize 1-1-3-5 is still a superior setup and never look back?

I'm leaning very heavily on the latter.

While I am against passive buffs of this nature Mepps, I am curious when was the last time you guys released content that you all felt encouraged 2-2-2-2? AnB and Nexus (when it was released prior to the enrage timer in the side rooms) are the only content I can think of in the last few years that promoted such make-up. And AnB is a stretch. You never really needed a 2nd Tank for that raid.

thank you for reading this thread mepps, in NO way will this force a certain group type if implemented as OP suggests. as things stand now in the game dps stacking HURTS support roles and makes it hard for people to gear. a BALANCED group is considered sub par. look at this as a option. not as pushing. it RESTORES balance to those who want it.

Thank you for acknowledging my thread

We basically have arrived at a point in the discussion where the people who agree with the concept are united on the opinion that we don't want to affect anyone elses game play. We simply want the option of running a balanced group without being faced with the stigma of it being unviable due to it's poor damage output.

I know that Weapon Mastery will help with this, but ultimately it doesn't resolve the problem because a group of stacked DPS are in a situation of still providing more damage out than a balanced 2-2-2-2 group, therefore it'll still be perceived as the least viable option.

My concerns personally are that you guys are going to be forced into a situation of developing content which challenges a stacked DPS group using weapon mastery, or risk making the content far too easy, removing challenge and the fun of running it in the process. I feel that buffing the damage output of a balanced group means you can still continue to produce content which challenges those players who want to run with a DPS-stacked group, but not prevent a balanced group from being able to beat the content OR cause the balanced group to have the hardest/worst experience in content.

There's a shortage of roles in the game. Many people opting to play DPS as it doesn't require as much effort as a support role. I feel encouraging the 2-2-2-2 role may entice people to at least try doing their support role (and maybe entice them into spending money on armories hehe ) as it removes the pressure that the community puts players under by expecting people to solo heal or solo tank (and potentially soon, solo troll, because of the perks of using weapon mastery).

I'm glad you guys are listening because I think it definitely needs looking at going forward, especially as the community continues to defy.

^ this x1000000.

Ultimately that's up to the player. I don't want to take away choice from the player. I just want more choices available. You may produce more damage running 5-1-1-1 or whatever, but you lose the benefits of running balanced so it's a fair compromise. However the damage out is simply too low for a balanced group to be able to beat content aimed at challenging groups containing 3,4 potentially even 5 DPS, who are not only using their rotations but upcoming Weapon Mastery, too.

Basically, I have no problem with the developer fine tuning content to challenge the burn players are producing, but allow balanced groups to content.

I would propose the exact same idea if the community was stacking tanks and the developers were building content designed to test groups stacking tanks. The point is, I want balance and more options when running content. I don't want to be cornered into taking extra DPS, because I (and by the looks of things, many others) like the idea of running with 2 of each role.

There are far more DPS than any other role. 2-2-2-2 will make it far more difficult for people who just like DPSing to find work. That is pretty much my only concern.