One Death in Elite Content No Longer Needed?

I think the Death counter is there as a form of (annoying ) attrition. Most MMOs do't allow pick ups ith no penalties and we took advantage of that. They aren't going to make something as difficult as launch Nexus of Reality again. As I fully believe the current Elite is yesterday's regular just with pick ups. This doesn't discourage casual players from trying raids because they'd rather be told the aren't elite than they aren't good enough to do anything endgame. The death is to stop veterans from just plowing through it because people who have been playing for 10 yearfs know the system inside out. The only thing than can do is initiate a gear check like nexus. Speaking of Nexus , I wonder if they would dare put that as the returning raid one day lol.

Serious question, why do you feel the need to play elite content if you think the game is just random one Shots?

The game is not random one shots, there are a few raids only where there are some weird one shots, because the devs have been lazy and never fixed the bugs, and yes there are some of these bugs but it's not everywhere. I'ts not a secret that Daybreak make 0 efforts to release quality Raids without bugs,and when there are bugs they don't fix them at all, every content released lately has been hugely broken or unplayable.

You are here complaining that elite is only random one shots, but it'd just your lack of knowledge of these raids and its mechanics

Leave elite raids as they are, or give some proper detailled explanations of the bugs happening to you via private mesdage to devs, otherwise don't complain to just complain without arguments. The 1 death allowed only is a good mechanic.

Hmm, you are the first person in this thread that is against it. Your views obviously isn't on the same page as other players who do elite content.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You mention DWFE in your post but Omega&Omega was specifically made harder because of the death counter which was the point. You had to have died 8 times and you have 8 players and 2 deaths each. So once you die intentionally if you die again before the end you now have one less player for the rest of the encounter to defeat granny to drop the shield on darkseid etc and you had numerous room mechanics active. You take away the death counter from DWFE and that raid becomes TRIVIAL, you could just kill the same person 8 times.

Raids today aren't designed like they were in the past and the only artificial difficulty we have in Elite is the fact that we can only have 1 death until we're out. Most of these "one-shots" you refer to aren't random and aren't really one shots. It's just that players aren't aware on how to avoid them. All the one shots in Fos 2 Prime Assassin could be avoided with phase dodge or amazon deflection. The only way that the death counter could be taken out would be to increase the base difficulty of raids to the level that it's not needed. However considering the state of the game for the past year+ I have zero faith that those types of raids could be created with the slew of bugs and flaws that were in the past raids like COUE and FFE. We don't have a choice but to have the death counter. Even raids like FGSE which scared most of the community, you take out the death counter and those fights drop drastically in difficulty.

The only players for this are ones that don't realize most random one shots aren't random and just want a simpler stress free completion of elite content which is the last thing that needs to be given out on a silver spoon.

Pickups is one of thr biggest reason i run quantum tunneling in my dps loadout haha im an assassin, oride myself on it and theres too much utility to not use it IMO

Agree with everything but the last part.
Thats NOT the only players that agree with this.
I want wlite harder to compensate with more engaging mechanics.
Im in favor for that reason, remove the death count an give us better/harder/ and more engaging content

Phase dodge and/or Amazon Deflection is required for elite content? You know what, maybe this game is on to something for difficulty. I think it's perfectly fine. Yep...

Lord... What the heck?

100% I want that too, but these past years playing DCUO have made me a complete pragmatist. Unless its Charon or Quixotic being hands on from start to finish with that content, we aren't getting anywhere near that level of content complexity that would warrant removing the death counter. Even look at the older content like the batcaves, dcuo has nerfed alot of the npcs that made those difficult. Neuro-Omac doesn't perma stun, eyedrone doesn't drain power, you can still damage through shield sentries etc.

I have no doubt in my mind that there would be more complaints about elite being too hard if they released content worthy of removing the death counter so the whole process would be counter productive overall.

Oh for sure, i want it tho, thus my agreement with the request.
Im sure “good” content with no counter would get nerf’d but hey, its what i’d prefer and even nerf’d i bet it wouod have better mechanics an such then we currently get haha

Agreed with Obsidian here.

While I agree that one death in elite content *might* no longer be needed, we have to be realistic regarding the content design itself. Unless Charon or Quixotic are doing the content, and unless there is a lot of mechanic overlap involved (fun but doable), it just wouldn't work. Personally I don't trust the other content devs to produce elite raids with enough fun mechanics to compensate for removing the one death thing.

There would also have to be distinct mechanic differences between normal and elite. For example in Phoenix Cannon (Elite) you have the red ball phases, which don't appear in regular.

It also makes feats like Omega and Omega and the Aquaman one that was added to Royal War (Elite) much more trivial.

If anything it would make elite content easier, and elite content (ISE, CUe) is already becoming fairly easy as it is. We haven't had a decent challenging elite raid since FGSe. In some cases there would be no difference between normal and elite besides rewards and having (Elite) by the raid title.

At that point, is the 1 death rule making the content harder or just frustrating? Honest question, there seems to be a consensus with all the elite players in this thread about them being okay with it's removal if the content promoted more challenge. I'm fine with that, because what is a challenge? Having 2 chances of getting through it isn't promoting engagement, just promoting ways to avoid dying. I mean, look at chill saying phase dodge... Remember how the overuse of it caused a nerf in the first place?

It may make the older content easier, because of the building around it, but that also means future content can be built around it's removal. It would also help EEG content, as it stands, elite content in EEG is inaccessible again. No more out gearing.

I really wish they’d add the EEG buff to elites. It’s like my only other wish apart from the allies.

Forgive my ineptness
The acronym EEG is eluding me……
(Im sure i facepalm when i hear what it stands for lol, just drawing a blank at the moment lol)

Early End Game

Insert face palm video here

What do you want them to do?
Difficulty level seems to be where this thread is going.

Most elite players have close to maxed or maxed skill points, multiple maxed artifacts, maxed allies (maybe), tier 3 pets, multiple spamming EOG's, maxed episode augments, etc. You take advantage of every tool available to you to make the raid easier then complain its not hard enough?

You're mostly veterans so you know every trick in the book.
Block this, lunge that, etc.
Maybe you all should take a break lol, and im not trolling. Maybe take a break n wait for a new season of survival mode.
What else can they do? Have the bosses not show tells? Get rid of the skull warning? More puzzles?
You would just eventually figure those out too right? I understand some elites were too easy, you're right about that, but didnt they just have content with 5 different levels of difficulty?
Maybe you've seen everything they can throw at you.
Maybe the'yre out of ideas.
They would probably only compensate by making everything hit harder.

We have ARC-Bot in ISE (i assume regular too) resetting in some cases multiple times in a fight, and if they cant fix THAT, along with other existing bugs i'll pass on making elites harder until they get things right. Its discouraging as hell dealing with buggy elite raids & im sure it discourages the majority of players. The 1 death doesnt bother me if the raid isnt a buggy mess. 1 death, get rid of 1 death, whatever.

Yea that's not true, but I understand why you're pessimistic.

I supported the idea but only under the proviso difficulty was increased to compensate, I just legitimately would rather see raids with greater legitimate difficulty that takes in to account the ability to rally and not rubbish mechanics that rely on an artificial gimmick, being the 2 lives and out.

I think that's why there were honestly issues with FOS2 for example, they scaled it up but gave no consideration to the fact some of the mechanics in there were built around the premise that rallies would be available, so yes you could use phase dodge or amazonian deflection, but should you really have too?

Now that 'elite' content has been in the game for a while and set an expectation that it's for elite players it opens the opportunity to have another shot at Nexus/Paradox type content without the death counter and without losing chunks of its community who can then stick with normal now rather than being entirely left out in the cold?

The death counter just seems cheap and a bit dated.

Its true that the dev that adjusts the difficulty during the Test server is the main reason if something is difficult or not from my experience during the flashtastic Episode the elite alert had a very good difficulty and its because Quitoxic did it whos also known to be a excellent person for Elite content he also didnt nerf it much ( im sure another dev excluding charon would just massivly nerf it) just a minor tweak which was good he stood his ground after some complains came which is how it is supposed to be on Elite difficulty,its supposed to be a challenge.

As a sidenote i dont think Elite alerts need to be very difficult just the Elite raids.

and whenever Charon himself does a Elite raid like False idols elite it turns to be a big hit regarding its difficulty,i mean that Episode is so good the Monsters of metal Elite is very well done too probably one of the best episodes in years imo especially to me since it focused on Tanking difficulty and 2 Tanks setups.

not sure if its possible or not but i would really think if Quitoxic and Charon doing Elite raid difficulty adjustments only in each Episode that we will see a big big improvment in the difficulty,its a big deal and drives players away from the game if the difficulty isnt high on a Elite raid,or atleast one of them do one of the Elite raid in each episode.

No offense, but, I think we need to tone back the whole "only certain devs are good" comments. I appreciate we all have a liking to certain flavors of content that inevitably come with certain developers but the insinuation is obviously that the others are "no good" and we should avoid being inadvertently disparaging and disrespectful.

Obviously all members on the development team are involved in development and possibly take turns in developing certain types of content and that should be respected whether we subjectively like it or not.

We have to be speak some of the things we experienced though,
It could be that other devs have other strengths in other parts of the game? Not sure and not saying anything bad about them i just prefer (in Elite raids) those 2 devs and i think a few others share a similar opinion.

Not meant to be offense or anything like that towards the rest of the dev team. But to get maximum value in this piece of content there also needs to be the right person doing the adjustments again no offense im sure charon is tired of reading the complains for Elite raid difficulty.

Do you remember FGSE where Charon did the difficulty adjustements? Where he clearly said no nerfs going to happen and hes the lead content designer. Generally these 2 devs are great at communication too whenever they adjust a content. Credit needs to be given if its deserverd and thats what im doing.

Edit: Jackfrost also listens very well to feedback