Discussion in 'Oracle’s Database (Guides)' started by OMAAR, Mar 2, 2013.

  1. OMAAR New Player

    First of all: where have you been? I don't see you on the forums!

    What I do to take values is this:
    -I film the whole animation on my Ipad
    -Using Pinnacle studio I count the time needed from when the animation starts on the tv ( not my button press ) untill I can first clip the attack with a power.
    -I do this multiple times

    For CTSV:
    ( weapon dps + ( precision/10 ) ) X CTSV = damage per hit.

    CCM: take flurry and spinchop for instance

    Flurry hits 4 times, spin chop hits once. Realistically 0.26 is 1/4 every four hits.

    By the time 4 spinchops have passed one will have critted while flurry will have critted 4 times. If the cumulative damage of the four crits>one big crit then you are set.
    BUT then again flurry has 12 more hits that have a critical hit potential when spin chop has only 3 more.

    Lets execute this:

    4x108x2.3= 993
    345x2.3= 793

    Flurry But if only one more flurry crits it puts flurry ahead of spin chop even more. Putting flurry ahead.
    Let's continue 3x0.26=0.78 while 12x0.26= 3.12 meaning the second crit might NOT happen on spin chop but most probably 3 of the 12 WhipThrash hits have a chance that it will crit.

    SO bothe statistically and damage wise flurry is ahead of spin chop.
  2. Warlan New Player

    Heh, I took a break from the game for quite a bit.

    Can you check the Flurry vs Spin Chop times again? Seems to me, from personal experience, they are off. You're basically saying no difference in clipped time. You have to be careful about clipping it as soon as you can because some combos will lose hits if clipped too early (generally speaking).

    For CTSV I understand where you're using it, I don't understand where you are finding that value. CTSV=? Do you mean CTSV=(damage per hit)/((weapon dps + (precision/10)).

    As for CCM let's say flurry and chop hit for the same total damage and take the same amount of time. After 4 chops of 200 base damage each with one critting for 400 damage (assuming 100% crit bonus) you'd have 1000 total damage (200+200+200+400). The Flurry would be 4*50+4*50+4*50+4*100 (the last being the 4 crits)=1000 total damage, the same as the spin chop. So, the number of hits doesn't matter.

    In fact, you could argue with how overpowered we are that the LONGER you take to execute the combo the LESS POTENTIAL DPS you will get because the mob is already dead but on a boss, the number of hits is irrelevant, all other things being equal (time to perform combo and total damage). Does that make sense?
  3. SuperMia New Player

    Yay! I can't wait until you test Dual Wield in a few weeks! XD
  4. Vexedbit Well-Known Player

    And OMAAR does it again! Nice job. Glad to see the numbers prove Flurry is the better combo.
  5. Warlan New Player

    C'mon bro, you can't use 'ifs' like that in math! Look, the only reason flurry is doing more damage right now is because of your base calculations. Over a given raid, assuming the combos take the SAME amount of time and do the SAME amount of damage the number of hits is unimportant. If you executed 100 spin chops and 100 flurries you would find what I'm saying is true. You're trying to take ONE combo and use IFs. Can't do that. :)

    If comparing a combo that takes twice the amount of time but does twice the amount of damage you could run into problems with the mob dieing prematurely and this is a problem for combos where the damage is loaded at the final hit. For example if I do SuperNinjaCombo that is 4 hits of 250 damage each for a total of 1000 damage and takes 4 seconds to execute but the mob dies within 3 seconds i've done 750 damage. If I'm doing SuperNinjaMegaCombo that is 8 hits but back loads it but it's total damage is 2000 and takes 8 seconds to complete you would have 100*7 then a big hit for 1300. The problem is I've only got 3 of the 100 damage hits off for a total of 300 damage cause the mob died before I could finish the combo. (In the above example I'm assuming each hit takes 1 second to execute).
  6. Warlan New Player

    Depends on what numbers you use. I don't doubt the damage numbers, the clipped time is the key factor. Other people are reporting the difference in clipped time between Spin Chop and Flurry is greater. I know personally I can execute clipped Spin Chop quite a bit faster than clipped Flurry but this could be down to user error.

    I'm more interested in Staff and Handblaster numbers personally. :)
  7. Potent New Player

    It's simple, really. More hits = More Chances of Crit. More Chances of Crit = Higher POTENTIAL DPS(Note the keyword. Potential.)
  8. OMAAR New Player

    Ok no if's or but's ;)
    Say 100 flurries and 100 spin chops. 0.26 will definitely crit. Lets take it at 0,25 for a nice rounded number.

    critical:0.25x4x108x100x2.3=24,840 damage
    Normal: 0.25x4x108x100= 32,400 damage

    Critical: 0.25x100x345x2.3=19,837
    Normal: 0.75x100x345=25,875
    Total= 45,712

    Regarding times, I clearly stated ps3 because well it's what I have :)mI am sure BOTH are faster on the PC nullifying difference.
  9. OMAAR New Player

    Handblasters are today or tomorrow ( I have injured my back and have nothing better to do )
  10. OMAAR New Player

    Regarding loosing an attack, I have not seen an attack loss from flurry. And I have checked both times. I do SOMETIMES pull each one off faster but that's like 1 or 2 in 10.

    And regarding potential even if no crits were used flurry still hits harder than spinchop, and it has an extra hit to get to to boot.

    I love discussing stuff
    Ile this so if you find any more discrepancies shoot :)
    Cheers my brother.
  11. JEEBIE Steadfast Player

    Shouldn't the time elapsed be a bigger gap between spin and flurry though? If it's .33 per swing and it's 1 swing difference shouldn't we be looking at at least that large of a gap?
  12. OMAAR New Player

    Oh CTSV means Constant Time specific value or a 550 hp cadillac :) I remember the devs saying that if an attack takes a longer time to execute it will put out more damage.

    What I does take an attack and spread it to an average of 2 hours over a week or two ( so that I won't get bored ). Say flurry I record it's values ( high and low ) then take the average. That's my base damage at that certain precision and weapon

    Next I use different precision gear and test again and verify if it's close or not so far it has played by 2 damage per second max.

    Now I use this formula: CTSV= base damage / (weapon dps + ( precision/10)
  13. OMAAR New Player

    Jezebel that 0.33 is the CTSV not time elapsed.
    0.33x(weapon dps + (precision/10) = the average damage you do from each swing.
  14. Warlan New Player

    No. It doesn't work like that if the powers do the same base damage over the same time. I've explained that pretty simply with actual numbers to make it easier to understand.
  15. JEEBIE Steadfast Player

    ahh oops thought that was the time not damage.
  16. Warlan New Player

    OMAAR, you have 1.1 sec for spin vs 1.2 sec for flurry. He has 0.9 second for spin and 1.3 second for Flurry. The difference in time is what makes his Spin Chop more DPS than his flurry, contrary to what you see (I'm not claiming anyone is correct here, just that that is why there is a descrepancy).

    Real numbers aside, you stated that number of hits effects the criticals and that is just not true. It's only true if the one that has more hits does more damage assuming the times are the same. Of course Flurry is going to do more damage over the course of the raid in YOUR example because your DPS for Flurry is higher than Spin Chop. But if you took the numbers in the other thread this would not be true as his DPS for Spin Chop is higher (because of the times he claims he gets for clipping). My point was that if the combos took the SAME time and did the SAME damage that the one with more hits does not result in more total damage. It may result in more critical hits but those critical hits do the SAME damage on average that the bigger one will over the course of the raid.
  17. OMAAR New Player

    Aha, what your saying is spinnchop is much faster. I'll recheck everything tomorrow and concur. Take note that this again is ps3 where we are limited by hand reflexes instead of macros.
  18. Warlan New Player

    Yes, that was the formula I posted in my post. So CTSV=damage per hit.
  19. Warlan New Player

    Well, yes and no. In my hands spin chop is faster and I'm thinking it was because flurry if you clip too fast you actually lose hits but I was doing so much testing last night it's all a blur. What I can say is that the other thread suggests that spin chop is 0.4 seconds faster and that difference is what makes spin chop (in that thread) better DPS. But, as he said in his notes, the 'timing' of these clips carries the greatest potential for error and I agree with that. Dual wield, from my recollection, is 'safer' to clip than other powers so you're less likely to mess up a clip while other powers often if you clip too early you lose the extra dps.
  20. Warlan New Player

    OK, why are you confusing me then with these fancy names. ;) LOL.