Noticed something about how Aggro works now.

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Kanmaru, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    This is false except in the context of a new group of adds that the tank hasn't grabbed yet (like if the tank is near the boss in HIVE and takes a split second too long to get to the doors.

    When comparing dps to dps, then yes, I might be inclined to believe you because it seems that fire and nature tend to get a lot of aggro in dps-only situations, though that might only be my impression. Healers definitely have a superior amount of aggro in a tank-less group almost 100% of the time, unless they're not healing, of course.

    A DPS will never, ever, ever, ever, top a tank on a hate list, as long as the tank is casting any power (they could even cast heat vision, lol) every 8 seconds.
    • Like x 1
  2. Schimaera Devoted Player

    Just an interesting side node before more false informations appear here:

    It seems as if the Strong Taunt (single target taunt) is a seperate thing and has nothing to do with the other tank aggro mechanics. It has been a while, honestly, since I lastly saw it - since there is no survival anymore so if anything changed, please notify me:

    Ususally if I'm not mistaken, aggro it works something like this:

    - a taunt holds for like 8 seconds (or was it 12?)
    - if you use another ability within this time window, the counter resets to 8
    - if you don't, you jump down to your "normal" threat level with what you've generated normally so far, usually you lose aggro that way

    Now what I realised with strong taunts is the following:

    - the strong taunt moves you to the top of the hate table for 8 seconds, even if there is another tank
    - if you use the strong taunt again within the time window, the counter resets to 8
    - if you use another ability within this time window, the counter does not reset to8, after 8 seconds you lose aggro.

    Again, this is something that just came to my mind and I lastly saw this happening in Survival Mode. I'm pretty capable so you may believe me if I say that I was constantly using powers within the taunt-window, yet sometimes bosses jumped to dps/heal without a scripted attack. When we were tanking SM without strong taunts (because the distance between bosses was enough) I did not encounter this problem. It seemed to me as if an active strong taunt did not recognize any other taunts...

    Can someone verify this or debunk this? Because if this is (still) true, it is another point that (new) tanks should be aware of.
    Again: Haven't tanked in a while and I don't think I used my strong taunts after the revamp at all :D Please be kind to me ^_^
  3. Schimaera Devoted Player

    Let's make a thread about UI Revamps including incombat raid-statistics with heal per second, threat per second and damage per second just to prove this point to everyone :) (and because I would love to see something like this). When I was playing SWTOR the ParseUI was invaluable to me..
    • Like x 1
  4. Plowed In Loyal Player

    Off of that point, does FFXIV have a block button? It’s been a while since I played. The boss movement keeps it interesting for the tank at least. Tank N Spank gets kinda boring from time to time.

    Oh the other difference I can think of is the floor indicators other MMOs have, but DC doesn’t.
  5. Schimaera Devoted Player

    Do you mean "indicator void" -> a few seconds -> damage happens?

    If so, these mechanics are in DCUO but not often. Ultimate Soldier has them, Doomsday has it, Machine Raid has it, HivE has it. There are other encounters as well but usually it's more like "damage field spwans [-> a few seconds] -> damage happens".
    The brackets can be left out sometimes.

    Maybe the devs are slowly starting to go that route though. Doomsday and Judas Contract are pretty young and they both have these indicators..
    • Like x 1
  6. Knarlydude Loyal Player


    That's basically how it works and how I have always played it. Even after revamp and I do not have issues.

    The window for taunts is 12 seconds and the reset window was/is in between 10-12 seconds. Cast at 8 seconds and you do not reset. I usually cast it too many times because I'm not counting to 10/12.......................LOL. Not because I do want to. It's because I am doing & watching other things and players. If someone goes down close then I move and I try to keep things away from healers and controllers. The DPS or usually too busy pew pew pew in my back pocket & standing in AOE's ( LOL ). Trying to get them away is pointless.
    • Like x 2
  7. LastSonOfEarth Committed Player

    I think you’re misreading some people’s ideas in here. Not sure where someone said blocking itself loses aggro, but if they did, I’m guessing they assumed you’d know they meant “and didn’t pop a power within X seconds.” That truly is how most aggro is actually lost in-game. A tank not updating his aggro because he was too busy blocking or recovering or being juggled or doing weapon attacks and missed the X-second mark somehow. Doesn’t happen often, but that’s exactly how it happens.

    Also, this certainly isn’t the thread to sticky, since most people who are questioning anything in here are questioning it relating to a big or unintended circumstance by said hate table. It’s the corrective dummies in the thread actually detailing it by taking about intended use of the hate table. We all know how it’s supposed to work (well many of us, anyways) so that debate isn’t really what this thread was to me. I thought we were wondering if some people are experiencing a bug, since i would assume things like scripted attacks have been around for years.
  8. LastSonOfEarth Committed Player

    No. Unless by perform you mean control adds longer. What I was referring to was tanks for years saying that if they had higher dom they would take aggro from the other tank. Unless this changed with revamp (I was gone a few years) and you’ve tested that a 10k dom tank will instantly lose aggro to a 10.5k dom tank (without using a STT) then my answer is either “no” or “we weren’t referring to the same dom topic.”

    Do let me know tho, so I don’t have to go test it. :)
  9. Proxystar #Perception

    It's not really splitting hairs, there's the correct answer and the incorrect answer and we should be promoting the correct answer.

    Single taunts aren't needed to regain aggro from a DPS player. Although some single taunts might also act as pulls, the art of pulling NPC's should be confused with single taunting.
    • Like x 1
  10. Proxystar #Perception

    The single taunt is designed to put you at the top of the hate table for that particular NPC irrespective of whether there is another tank in the group casting a power, the only way for the other tank to gain the aggro would be to use their own single taunt.

    It's designed to be used in any content that requires two tanks, because you'll often be separating the targets.
  11. Schimaera Devoted Player

    Wasn't my real point. All good :)

    The point was that there are so many misconceptions (power spamming in melee range to generate aggro) about tanking that there should be a sticky thread that just details how aggro and threat/hate works.
    Same goes for scripted attacks and things like proximity aggro. When HH came out, there were soooo many players claiming their tanks were horrible because stompa was attacking non-tanks. I mean yeah...the tanks were bad if they stayed at range to stompa, but so was the group.
    • Like x 1
  12. Schimaera Devoted Player

    That's the way, yes. But glad I'm not wrong haha. Moving enemies away from a downed player is always a good thing.
    • Like x 1
  13. Schimaera Devoted Player

    That was not what I explained or what I was asking about, Proxy :) I know what the single taunt does, my point was rather how your strong taunt works with your normal taunts (or the lack of them working together).
    Also, I'm not 100% sure about this but I was under the impression that the strong taunts of two tanks on the same target work like two normal taunts of two tanks - meaning that it is not guaranteed that the second taunt is the one the enemy responds to until it expires.

    Sorry if I phrase my points weird. English is not my native tongue :)
  14. Erin Arror Dedicated Player

    NPC Boss goes after your scent. Too much this:

    [IMG]
    • Like x 2
  15. Proxystar #Perception

    It's by all intents and purposes the same as any other tank taunt apart from the fact that it overrides another tank taunt, but other than that it's exactly the same as a tank taunt.

    Tanks could sit there fighting over a boss with single taunts, but that would be horribly stupid lol
  16. Schimaera Devoted Player

    Assuming you read the second part I wrote, Proxy, is it save to assume that you mean that single taunt + normal taunt within 12 seconds does not make you lose aggro? Because that's what I was explaining, that's what was happening some time ago. My question was if it still works that way. Back in SM using only normal abilities (normal taunts) after you strong-taunted an NPC before, it would not refresh your hate/threat and such causing you to lose aggro if you do not re-use a strong taunt within the twelve seconds.

    It looked something like this:

    1. strong taunt
    2. non-strong-taunt-abilities for the next 12 seconds
    3. aggro drop, boss jumps away
    4. any taunt, boss comes back to you

    I recognized this in HH, Oa and Trigons and the boss moves after the supposed "aggro drop" were non-scripted attacks.

    Don't get me wrong, I could interpret what you wrote that way but I am not certain. Did you mean that after a strong taunt, any other taunt will just prolong the aggro but after the effect of the stronger taunt expires, it's just a normal tank-aggro you have then?
  17. Plowed In Loyal Player

    Ah, yes, they are working them in. I was thinking more like AoE rings around enemies or Conal attack indicators, but there are some in DCUO as well.

    Just thinking...”Hey what’s that giant X for?”....I dunno, go check it out...lol. BOOM. :p
  18. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    Ya see? This is what happens when you have bosses that only target the tank 50% of the time, it confuses everyone :p
  19. Schimaera Devoted Player

    I would love bosses to have more cleaves instead of 360° AoEs. Would enable more save melee gameplay in elite content. Almost every MMO I've played has melee toons in hard content. We, we have max/midrange majorities due to a 2-deaths counter in elite.
    Though I think that most of these indicators would break a bit immersion for some.
  20. Schimaera Devoted Player

    This percentage number is sooo wrong :p
    • Like x 1