No new plans for next year? No sexy surveys?;_;

Ack! I quoted the wrong post!

Sexy ones.

Meh from me on Survey's. Don't get me wrong, I would be tempted to care for the survey's if they actually felt like they meant something was happening.
Remember when a PVP Fix/Update was on one of their survey's? Post forward and PVP got confirmed never really to be fixed again. Something's technically did happen like a Lair Extension, but if you've noticed, those Extensions only apply to the new lairs with no sign of them going back and tweaking the older ones for a large league hall like room.


It just feels like the survey's are there to give you what you want to hear, but in reality you're better off not holding your breath expecting what's listed on the survey to actually be implemented/happen in game.

It's a little silly this even has to be articulated.

"Not expect us to follow your specific answer" First, I never stated that in my post. I'm fully well aware that Survey's are similar in pollings in that aspect, you find out what people would like to see you guys implement.

And with something like PVP which people whom have been pleading with you guys to try and update/fix it for years now, It's not much of a stretch to think that a lot of DCUO players voted for it on one of the survey's you guys had previously created.


"not a roadmap of what's going to happen" Again, this was never stated in my post. If I want a general roadmap of the game, it's easy to find in the current and upcoming events thread that you pinned over in the announcements sub forum.

Or normally you guys will post a sneak peek of content if it's close to being ready like with Justice League Dark coming up in March.



And to be fair, I did list that Lair Extensions which was voted for was actually implemented with the newer upcoming lairs, unless there's more to it than the large room area that's been introduced in the Atlantis/Brainiac Lair.

And it's also a little silly I have to clarify things which I never said in my reply.

Saying "this was an option on the survey" to "flash forward and it wasn't implemented" indicates you thought that everything they listed on a survey is what they were going to do in the future and implied it was simply choosing the order in which things were done. Some might call it a road map.

The fact of the matter is, we don't have the survey results. The pro PvP faction has always been super vocal on the forums, but the surveys didn't go out to just the forum users. There are a lot of us who are at best apathetic to PvP, if not down right antagonistic toward it, and responded to the survey accordingly. It could have been split down the middle and they decided to prioritize things that had more broad-based appeal. We simply don't know. It might have even been high on the user survey, but it was too resource-consuming of a proposition at the end of the day. You can't always get what you want, but if you try some time...

… dude above already told you his opinion, and mentioned to "not put words in his mouth". Just saying...

He seemed to not understand why what he said would have prompted Mepps to make that statement. I was pointing out why that conclusion had been drawn, because it directly follows from what he originally said. He leapt to a conclusion that the results had been pro-PvP updates when in fact we don't know what the results even were (Well, I mean, Mepps does...).

He went with an assumption his position was correct without any reason to believe it was. He set up the unreasonable expectation that his vote was with the majority and that the majority hadn't been listened to, without anything to back up his position aside from his feeling that he was in the majority. He also seemed to be thinking that a survey is closer to legislation instead of the non-binding resolution it is.

He appeared to think that every possibility on the survey was slated to happen at some point. He created a fictional expectation that wasn't met, and then he was disappointed in the dev team because of it. "You didn't do something you never said you were going to do!", to paraphrase.

Perhaps this wasn't his intention, but, well, words have meanings.

I refer you to post #23. It was his first post. I'll rewrite his words how I see them (in my opinion)

Paragraph 1) Surveys don't mean anything at all.
Paragraph 2) Here are two examples, one where things did happen, one where things didn't happen
Paragraph 3) Surveys aren't a guarantee of anything.

Now, I apologize to Jacob Dragonhunter for changing his words around; those are not his exact words at all, just the words as I see them. In an over simplified version.

If you then go to post #26, Jacob Dragonhunter defends his original post, saying that the responses to his original post are a little wrong/ that they are misquoting him.

Thanks for reading this

So many assumptions, and so much I disagree with.

"The unreasonable expectation that his vote was with the majority and that the majority hadn't been listened to", without anything to back up his position"

Not true at all. When I brought up PVP and when folks directly asked for it to be fixed up, the developers/Mepps himself had stated they would love to fix it but they also admitted it's unlikely to happen.

Which that end of it's self contradicts what Mepps said in his response to me. In his words: A PVP update was listed as something that "can happen" but however, he was also quoted by the PVP community saying they couldn't really do anything to fix it.


"He seems to be thinking that a survey is a pro-legislation" No, I didn't; and still do not think of Survey's like that at all. I think of Survey's like Public Polling, you see what people want to be implemented the most, and then you either follow up with it or may not follow up with it depending on if it can be done or not.

Nowhere does that read as "legislation" at all.

"You didn't do something you never said you were going to do" Again, not true. I listed the developers eventually doing the Lair Extensions which was on one of their survey's.


I never listed a time-frame, there's no point in me listing a time frame. Water took 4 years to come out after they said they were going to do it, so I know patience is a virtue especially when it comes to this MMO.


The Main Intent of my post was to just post why survey's are meh to me, but clearly, you didn't read that. You saw what Mepps typed up when he responded to me and decided to jump aboard on the "omg he rekt him ship"and also assumed/took my words out of context.


I wasn't disappointed in the dev team, I was more or less just stating that I didn't care about the survey's just because half of the stuff that's listed on the survey doesn't/hasn't been implemented or if it does happen like with the Lair Extensions, It's only done in a small bunch.

And that's the truth, especially regarding PVP.

As I recall, Mepps is a big boy and can defend himself or am I missing something?

"I read this as you thinking survey's didn't actually mean anything, (they do.)"

I'm not saying that at all. It's just to me personally, it feels like the survey's were kind of a hit and miss.

"I read this as disappointment that a choice on a survey hasn't happened, therefore the survey was meaningless. (Things happening or not happening is what the survey is asking about.)"

What I was trying to convey was that a choice on the survey, in this case, a PVP Fix/Update, was publicly called a low priority, while that technically does mean a PVP fix can happen, the way you addressed it; it sounds like a PVP fix was essentially off the table.



"The PvP community has always vehemently disagreed with each other on even the most basic concepts and options in PvP, and has only ever included a small fraction of the population of DCUO. Overcoming that hurdle is perhaps impossible. It would take an enormous amount of time and work to unscramble the state of PvP now, define a new direction, and execute that new direction successfully, which again may well be impossible.

It seems to be a low probability that we would find a new or old design most players enjoyed. It seems to be a low probability that we would be able to execute it to the standards we and you require. It seems to be a low probability that such an update would meaningfully change player behavior with regard to PvP. It seems to be a low probability that any revenue would result.

It also seems likely that undertaking such an effort would mean not doing at least one episode that year, and more likely that it would mean not doing two episodes that year.

The potential impossibility of finding a liked design, unlikely possibility of success, unlikely chance that more PvP would be played, unlikely return on investment in terms of revenue, and the near certainty of giving up episodes to undertake this kind of update makes PvP not a top priority for now.

That said, it still remains something the team wants to do overall, if we can find a way around the above hurdles."

I wasn't trying to say Survey's were entirely meaningless, rather, I was trying to say that I do survey's but I always try to take things on there with a grain of salt because somethings may happen, somethings may not happen.

Some things from the survey did in-deed happen like Lair Extensions, which I did point out in my original post; and I'm thankful for that.

Things not happening yet is something I've come to expect from this game for better or worse, I mean.. when water was announced; it took all the way until 2017 for it to be ready to go to live. Patience with you guys when it comes to implementing things in game is something I'm used to, and It's something I don't try and take for granted. And if It did, I apologize for my poor word choice.


"I read this like you were expecting what's listed on the survey to happen, thinking that surveys were telling you something - "what you want to hear" - instead of a asking a question about what should happen. (Surveys are mainly about choices and prioritizing the options.)"

I'm well aware that as time goes on, things can change. Often is the case with DCUO as I've learned over the years through playing this game. I didn't expect every single item on the survey to happen, but PVP and lair extensions I did expect were going to happen; not right away, no. These things take their fair share of time to implement and I know that.


PVP was primarily the reason I said it sounded like something we wanted to hear, I didn't mean that in a disrespectful manner, but in a positive manner. People who see PVP on a survey may give them hope that if enough of them vote for it, the update as in your words, can happen. Not that it will happen, but it has a chance to.And I also feel like I want to say just on the contrary:
I've been critiqued a-lot in this thread for having a mixed opinion on surveys because somethings that I voted for didn't get implemented, But what's so wrong with me thinking like that? In my opinion, that's a fairly justified way of thinking about a survey.
Again, I don't expect every little thing to be implemented from a survey. But.. I mean, who would vote for a PVP fix on a survey just to be told multiple months later that it's virtually impossible? It feels pretty counter-intitutive. And judging by how many people who regularly ask and continue to ask for things to be implemented like a PVP fix, I legitimately doubt I was the only one who voted when that option was present alongside lair extensions.

in general:
I've always had a mixed opinion submitting my answers on surveys much like submitting feedback on the game, not that I necessarily hate submitting surveys, it's just due to how the nature of Survey's go. They always will feel like a Hit and miss situation to me.
With that said though, if the majority of people on these forums and elsewhere do want these survey's to continue, more power to them. I don't want my opinion to dictate on when or how yall conduct survey's. That should be up to the people who enjoy and take their time out of their day to fill them out.

I dontt see how a survey is going to make any difference what so ever.

actually without any data of what the survey compiled I have a hard time buying any of the "surveys matter" malarky

the reason PVP supporters seem so prevalent is cause the SAME players keep shouting over and over again about it, everybody else simply doesn't care. from my standpoint (and other people who don't perform or engage in non LPVE PVP) it doesn't effect us in the slightest outside of the occasional open world/police and or safe house PVPER who rudely INSISTS that they have to beat everybody around them (whether you have duel invites ignored or not). some of us just aren't that into promoting player vs. player violence and the profanity and vulgarity it breeds. the very reason PVP is being ignored is the reason players want it improved, the PVP sub community is the most openly TOXIC portion of this game and only think PVP is great when they're winning using one of the more over powered powersets. the rest of us just IGNORE the random weirdos beating each other and cursing after they lose, besides the chat exploit PVPERS are the second biggest reason i keep chat off unless calling for a bounty group or in group chat, and even there i have some bad apples.

we didn't have buses when i went to school, we rode something that looked like one of those big reptiles from flintstones. i'm kidding........but seriously, that bus was full of 5 year old hoodlums, ever hear a toddler cuss like a drunken sailor and watch them swing over the seats like bonobos? i had to, those things weren't children.

Wait so im confused.. if you guys put out a survey with options a,b & c to see what players who are involed enough to vote are wanting.. you guys get a good amount of votes & we still shouldn’t expect to see neither ab or c in game in the future? Whats the point then im very confused...

And whos to say a pvp dlc wouldn’t do good today? Its been years since that joker drop, a lot of people want a multiplayer game & really if your only doing player vs ai isn’t this just co op gameplay?

Pvp is fixable, its do able , it would draw in players who got bored with beating up mind controlled Superman 5x... another big issue w the most recent pvp season was it wasn’t advertised as much as pve is, lets just b honest if you dont have a forums you dont know what the heck’s going on in community especially bc the twitter is nothing but spamming sales & double currency....