"New" vfx for Inescapable Storm just a recoloured Absorb Heat.

I just checked the fire/ ice comparison video and my Test toon again to be sure. If SOE's idea of a "revamp" is just to recolour Fire powers and rush the Ice set out the door, then I'll be stepping away from the game for good. If that's the case why not just recolour all the Fire powers and paste them into the ice tree? Honestly, I expected a better effort than that. Also, the ice armor graphic still isn't displaying properly on large sized characters. I'm not sure what the "third" vfx update was, but I never noticed anything. Back to my original point, where is the "storm" in Inescapable Storm? A blue ray is not a storm. Call it Frost Pull or something. The lack of creativity or even effort for Ice powers is as noticeable as it is slipshod.

One more Test concern cropped up this morning, and I'll have to check my Live server to confirm it, but am I reading the Test correctly that only three powers across BOTH trees having tanking interactions and tooltips? Is that right? I could have sworn that there were far more interactions than that, but I admit to rarely reading tooltips unless specifically for testing purposes. I've got to go to the gym and shower, but I'll check and update this thread in a few hours with my findings.

I would remind the devs to watch this:



And try harder. This should not be released in its current state, its an embarrassment to the team.

Great vids and I fully agree with all of the points made.

Are the devs actually out of ideas? I'm sure I could rustle up a good 20 or 30 ideas in an hour or so... hehe.

I have no idea why there's such a fascination with ice cubes and round globes of frost. Or the cheesy looking golem figures.

Yeah, I counted 5-6 powers on Live that have tank effects. This is part of the issue right here, a lack of attention paid to the tanking side of the tree. I'm not sure why the devs decided to cut out interactions. Makes no sense. I'll have to read the Test patch notes again and see if there is any method to their madness.

I actually think the effects changes are interesting. They are more subtle that fire's buy they exist. I especiall find that tank and dos stance having different ice armor to be a nice touch. The need to use those new ice textures a little more throughout the power set. Moves like wintry tempest should have have the spikes retextured to the living ice shards found in the tank variant of ice armor.

The "new", as in added last Test server update, graphical effect is just a recoloured Absorb Heat. Without the pretty particle effects even. So its uglier and a different colour. Lazy. Lazy. Lazy. What does a blue beam have to do with an "inescapable storm"? The name and vfx aren't even trying to coincide, the devs just threw out a palette swap thinking that they would appease the outcry over how rushed the powerset looks. Sure, some of the changes are interesting, but they're certainly not done. And three tooltips exist for tank interactions. THREE. Across both trees - that also needs to be addressed.

Well maybe i should have been more clear. Yea IS's new effects is just a recolor but I also like the subtle changes to other powers like how impaling ice has shards of ice piercing the target before it explodes beneath them, how Ice armor is different in tank and DPS stance, and how when certain moves are used when enemies are frost bitten there is an even grander ice effect that takes place. This more grand ice effect needs to be spread to other moves. The beams don't need to necessarily change but the effect the beams have on the target should have more potent ice effects. After all, There is only so many ways you can make a beam of ice look.

I hear what you're saying. But why use the beams at all? It doesn't even fit within the con text of that power (IS). Four powers all with different effects, each share the Same animations (on Live). Three shields all look exactly the same. Yes the ice textures are improved, but the creativity employed in how those textures are used is nonexistent. I still can't get over the recolouring of a prexisting talent as a hotfix for something "new" on the test server. They need to create new effects period.

Oh, and only three powers on the Test server have tank interactions, so Ice Armor aside they are actually removing buffs, not adding or fixing content,

I

I actually think all the vfx need to do is take a few earth constructs and re texture them with Ice. Take the pillars found in shards for example. How awesome would it be if glacier flash was just a mountain of ice crashing into enemies. If earth can use the ice forms for golems , ice should be able to use the earth pillars. If you think about it , earth and ice should have similar creative processes with regards to visuals.

If I recall, before the update hit the test servers, there really wasn't all that big of an outcry for the ice FX to be revamped, and one of the big complaints that was there was addressed (ice armor no longer transforming the character model). Of the two powers, fire users were far more vocal about how the powers looked along with the functionality. It wasn't until the vids started coming out via Twitch TV and players from the test servers that grumblings about ice not getting as much FX love as fire started.

The whole thing just comes across as a "grass is greener" type of complaint, especially when they do put in some new FX and people still complain about it.

I like how this change looked. My complaint with Ice graphics wasn't as much their look but that there were many powers that shared the same looks. I was happy to see one less blue beam.

Did you actually try it out on Test? Its just a recoloured (blue) Absorb Heat. And its still a blue beam. Moreover, it has NOTHING to do with an "inescapable storm". Its an "inescapable blue beam."

Are you kidding me? There are pages upon pages of complaints regarding the sloppiness of the Ice vfx at the old forums (both PS3 and PC). Your information is wrong, I suggest you reread those threads on the old forums. Or some of the Youtube comments even. Almost every one is negative.

The grass isn't greener, there's not even a lawn. When a "visual overhaul" is touted and then not delivered at all (for one powerset) people have the right to complain. What they did with Inescapable Storm is just a rush job and it still doesn't fit with the name or sense of what the power should do. Recolouring a preexisting effect in literally one day does not indicate any sort of measurable effort or response to feedback on the development team's part.

The highlighted text is key, because most players had no idea how crappy, or simply unchanged, the animations were until the Livestream and subsequent videos. If you would like to suggest that the powers somehow got equal time and artistic development, by all means put that argument forth. I'd like to see it. Not to mention most of the Ice Interaction powers are simply missing and we only recently had a passable update to tanking mechanics (which still doesn't address DEF piercing at higher tiers and will only get worse in T5). Its clearly not ready, and it should be taken off the schedule until it is.

From the mouth of Meeps himself:

The Fire and Ice power sets have been overhauled with significant improvements to their visual and audio effects, as well as a refactoring of power interactions. Each Power set has received upgraded functionality, visual and audio effects, and descriptions. See below for a list of specific changes to abilities.

Again, the pertinent bits are highlighted. Now tell me where the player expectations came from. And if you go back to SOE events or interviews they've talked up the revamp for a while; particularly fire, which was the first to leak in a video on GU 22 if I recall.

looked like a beam of snow coming out with white speckles that I figured were supposed to be snow. Maybe I'm misremembering though.

Where to begin?

Been following the forums since the start, and while I never dealt with the PS3 forums (not my platform) I do remember the fire FX getting the lion's share of complaints over being lackluster in comparison to the ice FX. With all the early complaints on how strong Ice was in comparison to Fire and how much better Ice was than Fire, you'd think Fire was the proverbial "red-headed stepchild" of the tanking classes at the time. Also, my first character was a re-creation of a character I made in beta and that was an Ice character. I've never felt the ice FX to be lacking; if I had I would have spoken up about it by now.

Where do the player expectations come from? The players themselves. Mepps' note says, "Each Power set has received upgraded functionality, visual and audio effects, and descriptions." Some seem to have taken that to mean, "completely redone and totally different from what it was before." Not all upgrades are going to be completely different, or even totally noticable. In fact, in the Livestream they stated right at the beginning that their main focus on Ice was fixing some of the descriptions and tooltips. Call me crazy, but that kind of tells me they didn't think the Ice visuals were that bad to begin with. Either that, or they didn't see all the pages and pages of complaints you say existed on the old forums.

I've dealt with power/class revamps many times before, mainly in SWG. They'd usually do two professions at a time, and I remember the exact same complaints popping up when a class that had lackluster visuals got some much-needed upgrades in an update while the other (whose visual FX were fine to being with) didn't get the same attention. It came down to an old adage: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

But what I remember the most is the exact same kinds of hyperbole coming from the complaints. Threats of quitting, complaints of dev laziness, and so on and so forth. It's tough for me to take those hyperbolic complaints too seriously, especially when some advocate putting half of an update on hold (potentially disrupting the rest of the update schedule) just so the FX are pretty enough for them.

It's one thing to be passionate about an update to a class you play. I can appreciate that. But when that passion isn't used constructively, it doesn't help things much, as far as I'm concerned.

This. So this. We can't expect every power set to get a 100% from the ground up rebuild visually. Especially if they don't need it. Fire needed a visual rebuild because it was centered around that weak particle effect. It was ugly and looked awful next to every other power set in the game. Ice visuals on the other hand only needed touch ups to give individual abilities more definition.
Putting the team to work rebuilding this from scratch would be a waste of resources. I think that's the real reason they paired Ice and Fire for revamps. Fire was clearly going to need more attention than the other power sets, Ice was going to need less attention, so it balances out.

On a side note, as someone currently playing Ice I hate the idea of delaying GU23 to move the icicles around a bit just for the sake of it. If Ice looked as bad as classic Fire that'd be different, but right now I'm desperate for the GU23 mechanical changes to Ice and I was pretty happy with classic Ice to begin with.

This is absolutely wrong. Mepps was trying to do damage control by saying that, but frankly, the level of expectation is already set by an actual Dev and the players have every right to expect more from the update than what he says and what we have on Test.

Ice has SIX powers with identical FX. that's not just an aesthetic issue, it's a design issue. it's an issue of messaging to the player and effects playability. especially in PVP when your opponent isn't able to tell what power is being triggered because it could be any of 3 powers using the same visual fx.

from a design perspective the visuals are supposed to communicate what the power does also. this is so the player knows what they're doing when they trigger a power and knows what result to expect. if the visuals don't relate to the names of the powers it just adds confusion. the player doesn't know what to expect.

we pay for this game. that includes the updates. there is no "the devs have to make money" on these updates -- they do make money every month, by satisfying their existing playerbase. we're paying for a quality game, and while no one honestly expects a complete revamp, it's not unfair to expect Powers that make sense, VFX that haven't been recycled and demonstrated effort spent after months of waiting for the NEEDED update. it's fair to want to see value for the money we invest in this game.

you may have low standards but don't try to convince the rest of us that we should have low standards also, or that we should be happy to throw our money away. no thank you.

I don't mean this as a flame or anything but it's a bit blunt. You've expected wrong. The Devs have (whether intentionally or not) mislead the players (here and in a few other spots over the course of the game). A full rebuild of each power set isn't going to happen. You've got every right to be upset if you feel you were mislead but a full rebuild was never in the cards. If a Dev team member said otherwise they either misspoke, were misinformed or (I hate to say it) were lying.

Frankly I'd be against it anyway. If they're going to rebuild it from the ground up I'd rather they just left Ice broken, maybe tweaked the damage to bring it sort of inline, and put the time into a creating a new power set (provided the power set was as simple as Ice it would theoretically take the same amount of time and effort).

I've been around since the start too. On both sides actually, PS3 and PC. And if you were in the beta, you'd remember that at the time a lot of the animations were "placeholder". We were told - fire particularly - that they would be changed over time. In the case of Ice that never really happened. Just because the mistakes have been present for so long and people have grown accustomed to them, does not make them cease to exist.

Please don't tell me that as a paying customer, I don't have the right to constructively complain, or imply that isn't what I am doing. That is precisely my right, as a consumer and exactly what I am doing. I am not hurling random insults or spouting incoherence, I am pointing out inconsistencies. I am testing and offering feedback. Moreover, I've purchased two copies of the game, I've given thousands of dollars in subscription and marketplace money toward the development of the gameI do not think that makes my right to speak greater or lesser than any other, as consumers we should all contribute feedback toward the development of a product. You speak of passionate involvement, but that's exactly what you seem to be doing. Passionately defending something that is aesthetically broken during a crucial period where attentions are focused on fixing these issues. I am looking at this purely as a consumer to client relationship. Developers are not my friends, these games are not life. They are sources of entertainment, here to serve a purpose, and if they are not fulfilling in that need then I shall go elsewhere. Period.

Quite simply, what was promised/ intimated/ hinted at with the revamp is not what is being put forth. The inconsistencies are particularly glaring when shown next to fire. Having seven powers that all telegraph the same is a DESIGN issue in an action MMORPG. I've never even played an MMORPG, and I've run the gambit, where seven different powers (well a set of three and a set of four, technically) all look the same. This has been going on since the betas. This is not a new issue. This is the opportunity to fix it, so we should constructively assist the devs in doing so. It is NOT helpful to bury one's head in the sand and say "everything is great!" When its not. Ice is simply not up to par, visually or mechanically. It never was, particularly with T4 content, and this is the opportunity to correct those mistakes.

Watch the video, not just the one linked here, but the dev fire/ ice video. Pay attention to the granular level of detail applied to fire powers. Notice how EVERY power looks different, has various particle effects and has been - in most cases - retooled down to its mechanics. NEW powers were even added, two if I recall. (A DoT/ Heal and something else). That is a good "revamp". Ice is not.

So the blue beam is a start, yes. But can you honestly tell me that it wasn't a rush job? Patched in, in one day, using a prexisting vfx and a palette swap?

That is your opinion, it is not fact, and if you followed the forums you'd know that it wasn't the popular opinion. Again seven powers (well, six now that they patched in the lazy ray) that share two animations is a design issue. Please show me another action MMORPG where a class has that many powers that look identical. Not TERA, not Blade and Soul. I could go on.

This is the opportunity to help the devs with this feedback. Either that, or let the game languish on the market when far more attractive and polished options are out there.

Anyhoo. I've said my peace in this thread. I've tested and offered my feedback. I am going to step away now and wait to see what the Producer's Letter says this week, lest this devolve into a circular he said, she said type of forum post.

Besides, there's a PS4 announcement going on tomorrow, which deserves some attention

Peace and happy gaming to all.