New Fire- viability of Phase Dodge for Tanks? And, New Fire vs HL?

Discussion in 'War Room (Powers, Artifacts, & Builds)' started by Jurgen Blitz, Aug 25, 2014.

  1. Jurgen Blitz Dedicated Player

    Long story short, I have been away from the game and the forums for a long time. Nostalgia is kicking back and I might return to the game soon. Noticed Fire´s rework- loved it pre-"fix", and wondering if it truly got better. Not looking for something pre-"fix", just better than it was before.

    First off- if I do, I will want to relearn Tanking. I know that Fire relies on the healthpools more than on mitigation (not counting blocking) but still, could Phase Dodge be useful for a Fire Tank?

    Second, I can either make a new char from scratch, OR respec and old toon of mine that got less love before I took the break. Thing is, that toon is HL. I learned to adjust to the new HL after GU36, but I was wondering if anyone can give me a brief comparison of current HL vs current Fire, to see if I would regret a respec.

    Thanks in advance!
  2. Scott Zyur New Player

    With the advent of weapon mastery almost all powers (sorry celestial) are just about even. What you want to do is find a WM combo that fits into your rotation perfectly.

    For example: For my Fire DPS i use WM and Spontaneous combustion because Fire's AM is terrible. I don't care what anyone says, if you think you are putting out good numbers with the AM you could be doing even more with the WM build.

    I use Handblaster > Explosive shot mastery. Spontaneous Combustion / Inferno / Fiery Weapon / Overheat / Robot / Supercharge

    Rotation as follows: WM > Inferno / FW > Solar Flame / Overheat > WM > Spont > WM > Spont

    That rotation will take just a tad longer than it takes for Inferno and FW to cooldown so the timing is perfect. If you don't have a tank Wildfire is probably better than Inferno since stuff won't really just be standing in one spot for it to do its thing. This rotation will not let you down, i promise. My fire character is mainly a tank so im guessing maybe around 105 CR for DPS. I have synth mods in my gear and only 1970ish precision and 3900ish might. I still keep up with higher CR DPS in raids and alerts.

    As for tanking, i love tanking as Fire and you do not need PD to do it. Enflame, Backdraft and Stoke Flames are the minimum i would say. The other 3 powers can be w/e you want. I use Burnout, Burning Determination and Low Pressure.

    Fire is a great power but if you are on the fence you could always try making a new character to get a feel for it before you decide to respec an existing character.
  3. Jurgen Blitz Dedicated Player


    Thx Scott, I thought no one was going to answer. I brought up Phase Dodge because a lot of Fire users complian about Fire not having a daage mitigation/shield mechanic. I know there are ways to go around this as Fire, but I think it is a legitimate complaint, and was wondering about ways to give myself one of these mitigations- thought that PD could do the trick.

    Regarding Low Pressure, from what I´ve read, it is also a pull. But if you already have Backdraft in your loadout, which was a pull (although not a great one) from what I remember, how does it merge with the rest of the powers? Is the range higher for the pull, is the power cost smaller?
  4. Scott Zyur New Player

    Indeed, i do see a lot of people complain about Fire tanking. I think those players are the ones that either aren't as good or don't run with a strong group. Yes Fire is the most dependent on a healer but that doesn't always mean we are fish out of water without them. One thing i see a lot of fire tanks doing is just blocking 24/7. Play the counter game where you can. If there are a bunch of adds then blocking is of course the best choice but a 1v1 boss should have you lunging, ranging and blocking as best as you can read the bosses attacks.

    Another thing is to utilize those self heals. The changes to stoke flames make it a power that is almost always up now with a duration of 8 seconds of contant heals and a mere 12 second cooldown. Always get those crit heal innates even though other players say don't bother. Those are the same players that can't fire tank when the healer goes down.

    As for Low Pressure, i use it because Backdraft is a 360 AOE pull with a relatively small range and Fire has no native long range pull. Low pressure is a frontal cone pull though it has issues if there are other players or NPCs in the way of what you are trying to pull. This isnt a power you need to full time on your tray but, in fights like the first boss of Artifacts where tubes come up out of Backdraft range, it is very handy. Other movement types probably have a similar power but i haven't tried them to find out. You could also use the inconic lasso power but that is only single target and wastes a valuable power point instead of a skill point.

    One thing i don't use is a supercharge. The devs did finally make Eternal Flame a 50% instead of 100 but i just find them too situational and instead put the 4 extra PP i have leftover into the iconic Dom, Health and the Crit Heal Chance / Mag.

    Anyways, I am always happy to help. If you were on USPS i would offer to run some stuff with you. Instead just keep the questions coming and i will offer as much advice as i can. Hopefully TrueOlympus or Feenicks will jump in here too since they are some well known fire players. I'm sure you would also find their advice helpful.
    • Like x 1
  5. CrazyArtBrown Dedicated Player

    Fire is the weakest tanking power in the game right now. You can overcome that in easier content with strong enough gear or group support. But you'll always be a burden in difficult missions, compared to doing the same job with the other tanking powers. If you want to measure the most obvious part of the problem, run Lockdown with a fire tank and one of another type, and compare your relative healing in. Fire gets a boost to that, but it's not as large as the damage mitigation gap between it and the other tank powers. (Given what's in the game today, if you're not running Lockdown, you're in easy tanking content where it doesn't really matter)

    Phase Dodge is not a good replacement for shielding. It only gives you some extra defense at the cost of a lot of power, and the best case for damage mitigation from defense can only reach 80%. Just block instead to get more defense for zero power, and get the Fortified Blocking neck mod to make that gap bigger. Or run Absorb Heat with the Empowered Channeling hand mod, which gives you a bit less of a Defense boost than Phase Dodge--but you aren't vulnerable to block breaks the whole time it's running.

    I haven't been really happy with any of those approaches, and nowadays for fire I use Hard-Light Shield + Regenerative Shielding mod if I want a shield-shaped form of damage prevention. The main thing the recent Fire revamp did was make Stoke Flames useful more of the time. Whether that works better or worse than the HL Shield depends on your situation right now.