Nerf Nerf Nerf

This is what happens when you manifest a cyber-ego or virtual-ego.

The rational person will think Hey! I'm paying 15$ and so is other guy, win or lose it's all in the fun!

The other ones tend to bring out their real-life frustration out in a computer game and it's players. I'm guessing maybe their real life isn't going as planned and they find a virtual environment to lash out on.

This applies to to not only the ones crying for a nerf but also the one who exaggerate when receiving a small nerf as well.

I'd like to add that " First world country problems " meme.

Yes they did lower FR because of pple complaining and now they nerf Transmutation again but now its completely broken it just doesnt work at all lol.. but anyway there have been several nerf sense along time ago and most of them because of pple complaining about it and if u dont believe me u can look in this FORUM.. I hope they fix Sorcery on the revamp of Nature/Sorcery powers.

Edit: Dog/Ghost are gonna get nerf too now when GU25 gets release so yeah alot of nerfing going on

are you applying this to sorcery's transmutation as well. transmutation WAS working as intended. that is until scoreboard whiners screamed OP because of clownbox, glitch instead of fixing/removing CB. now transmutation no longer works as intended.

If you're not one of those people who is overly concerned about the scorecard what are you crying about? Also, why should only pvp be balanced?

I think the devs are trying to work towards balance for PvE and have a standard in mind. It's not a perfect science but they put a reasonable effort into it. If they let things get too out of control then we'll be WAY out of balance with the content. I know they spend a fair amount of time thinking about what's the right level of challenge for players. If they make it too hard, the casuals walk away. If they make it too easy, they lose a lot of credibility as an MMO and everyone walks away. If they let one class break away from the others too far, you could get LFG chat like this: "GLF 2 DPS 4 Prime (Gadget or HL-only)". They have to make sure we don't get to that point or else...again...they lose a lot of credibility as an MMO and everyone walks away. It's all a carefully crafted balancing act that requires taking into account more consideration than just what makes your loadout stronger and your raid run faster.

That said, sometimes taking action to bring an ability into balance will go too far and make the ability useless. I don't fault them for taking action. I do provide feedback when I feel a different action was more appropriate. Nerfing is necessary. It's plain and simple good housekeeping. Nerfing into oblivion is not.

I'm not crying I'm just trying to understand why? Trying to understand PVE Nerfs? Trying to understand why chart warriors cry about something being OP in PVE? There's a difference between crying an trying to understand why. Thanks though

The reasoning why these "Nerfs" and balances come is because if they did not....

--The player base would simply compare powers in the current state they are in.
--Once the best power is found, it is now the preferred choice of groups. IE: Gadgets for PvP DPS.
--Once it is the preferred choice of groups, other players will essentially be left out.
--To prevent being left out/to compete, players change powers.
--The cycle continues, but even stronger because there are more people displaying the "best" power.
--Eventually, the cycle will cease, because everyone is exactly the same.

Grant it, players can skip from step 1 to step 4, but this is basically how the game will work until it is to the point everyone will have the exact same thing. Same weapon, same gear, mods, SP, powerset, abilities, etc.

Since occasional nerfs and changes come, the first point listed above will SHIFT and therefore, people will change to illustrate that. This is what is more commonly known as "Fotm" or "Flavor of the month". This will not go away until everything in the game is exactly the same. A perfect balance between different abilities will never exist, because the sole purpose of them is to be better or worse in specific situations.

Balancing, nerfs, and buffs will always be made indefinitely. Everyone knows all the nerfs because they will always pay attention to a lower performance. The same isnt true for buffs. It all plays into how players think. If they're playing worse? "Its not me, its a nerf." If they're playing better? "Haha, i'm getting better." Nerfs are always going to be discovered. Buffs will almost never be noticed unless it is a large increase.

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Long story short? Deal with it. As long as there are different powersets and abilities. There will always be nerf calls/buff calls/changes/Fotm.

Generosity is a noble quality i.e being supportive but also balance your argument with the fact they are being paid; players still have a right to ask for high standards.

Spytle recently indirectly pointed out there is a level of intolerance to criticisms that don't take into account the fact DCUO is primarily a business. If people examined whatever issues they have from this perspective everything makes much clearer sense.

For instance you can spend $ in the cash shop to respec your powerset. Let's now say 40% of the playerbase has a level 30 sorcery toon, it doesn't take a genius to figure out you can make a lot of money nerfing sorcery now does it?

It is a faustian agreement being a developer, trying to balance your resposibility to the community with the onus to make make money for the corporation. Tough job.

Agree with all your comments actually I just wanted to add a little bit extra I thought might broaden the debate.

The problem is that fire has never been as abundant as it is now hl and gadget, so why is now so bad?

I see where you could interpret Spytle's comments as free license to do anything to try to make money. I interpret it to have an implied "with restraint" aspect to it. He was moreso justifying their structuring content with lockouts that encourage replay badge purchase. I think there's a line the developers wouldn't dare cross. I would consider targetted nerfs for the sake of selling respec tokens to cross that line and I'm betting everyone from the Captain Liberty, DeadMeat, Spytle, Mepps, and friends would agree that crosses the line. If I even suspected that was their motivation, I'd drop my sub and walk away today. I don't because I have more faith in them than that.

nerfing transmutation was the best decision they could make at the time except buffing box and making it a 25 percent SC. Honestly transmutation has caused just as many problems in this game as clownbox has, and they only nerfed it because i suspect in the update for sorc it will be taken out completley and replaced with something you all might like better. Who knows, point is some things do ruin the game, and trans clownbox was one of them for this reason:

Healers should not worry about freaking dpsing. Even if the damage was all real, i want my healer to heal me, not run around clownboxing everything to death.

As per the other nerfs, some i agree with, some I dont. But I am intelligent enough to realize that I am not always right, also i may not have the correct information as to why the nerf happened in the first place.

I do disagree with nerfs in pve for pvp reasons which is a growing problem.

And my thoughts on the nerfs to fire....they didn't nerf u, they just made it so you cant be lazy. The reason so many fire players QQ'd was because all they knew how to do was caste long casting times moves and knew nothing about what every other dps has to do in this game, move around and actually use your weapon.

I play fire and its actually more fun than it was before, love spont comb and many of the other moves.

Please learn that not everything can be the way you want it to, needless to say you are not the only one playing the game.

I agree with you to an extent. The Transmute/Clownbox/ObjectDamage combination warranted addressing. However. I do feel that the approach taken was not the best option. They could have put object damage to its own stat (or off the scoreboard completely). They could have made the clownbox unable to be exploded. Instead they made transmutation only explode harmful encasements which unnecessarily hurt its healing capacity and removed a really cool perk for getting the FOS 1 feat or the vault. It's tragically funny. Many people defended Transmute/Clownbox by saying you could always explode objects in the batcave raids so why would you consider it an issue now. It seems their comments to defend transmute actually fed the nerf to be worse. Whereas most of the people saying it needed to be looked at was only really concerned about it exploding the clownbox. The people that didn't want the nerf, made the nerf worse.

It isn't. When Fireburst and Meteor were "nerfed," they found out that Fire is far better as a DoT stacker than relying on burst damage. The problem? The update came in a bad time as everybody was already overgeared for the current tier. Burst damage trumped DoTs because it produced bigger results faster, especially with heaping help from trolls. And who are the kings of burst damage? Doesn't help that Gadgets got their updates first.

The problem as you should know is that they cant just "do" these things. It requires coding, and due to how transmutation is coded, it is caste, then explodes shortly after, the only way they could of fixed it is making it an instant power. Do not know what issues making it instant could cause, and as i said they probably planned to take it out anyway.

I do agree it is a cool utility move, but they seem to of stopped adding objects in t3+ (excluding crystals) content anyway so really effects nothing later in the game.

Good points

I posted this in another thread from another thread, but what was done to transmutation is in complete contradiction to this statement from spytle

just for shizz and giggles i wanted to see if there were other power moves that would do the same as transmutation, low and behold there are. ran Ace chem alert with an ice toon. I made a point to target any npc near destructable objects. being 1 piece shy of full T2 I out dps'd a full T3 dps by 200K just breaking every barrel and object in the alert with resonating gail. the problem wasnt transmutation it was clownbox. instead of removing it from the game when they took the power away from gadgets in their power update, the PROPER THING TO DO, they just made it iconic openning an exploit that wasnt there when it was a gadget power.

Imagine if you found a thread on another forum that stated "Power X is so OP it needs nerfing!"

...so the devs nerfed it.

Next day you get another thread "Power X is nerfed that's so unfair! you need to fix it!"

...so the devs tweak it back.

It would just keep going round and round forever.

I used to play a MUD where they nerfed/buffed things a lot so I understand your frustration completely but... oh I don't know...you understand what I am getting at, the game needs stability at some point.

Just sympathies I guess if your favourite power got squished :/

Sorry my point was unclear. The "nerfs" are mostly bug fixes and balancing. Your assumption that they are caused by people "crying" over the scorecard may or may not be accurate, but in either case I don't understand why people would assume balance in PVE is a bad thing unless they are exploiting broken or unbalanced elements in the game. Can you explain why most of these fixes are a bad thing without using insults? Other than transmute, I don't think any of the powers or weapons were made totally worthless.

Spytle wasn't talking about nerfs. He was talking about the list of trinkets that will be prohibited in PvP with GU25. He said polymorphing wont be in that list because that is a list of trinkets and polymorphing (ghosting or dogging) is caused by casting a power (not by activating a trinket). Transmutation doesn't contradict the statement because it also isn't in that list and also isn't a trinket. He's basically saying that the developers are discussing polymorph, however, under a different context.

http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuo...t-on-pc-test-game-update-25.9556/#post-123401

·The use of certain Trinkets and Consumables are being restricted in PvP Arenas. The following items are included in this restriction:

o25th Century Communicator

oDeath Blossom Seed

oSentinel's Sunken Rune

oRitualist's Sunken Rune

oSlayer's Sunken Rune

oChanter's Sunken Rune

oCreepy Jack

oScary Jack

oSpooky Jack

oEerie Jack

oMister Boo

oMs Boo

oCollector's Edition Drone Control Device

oToy Copter

oToy Blimp

oHoliday Rocket Sled

oOMAC Nanite Circuitry

oHeart of Devotion

oHeart of Scorn

oPhantom Zone Kryptonite Chunk

oSinister Clockwork Key

oManhunter Circuitry

oClown Nose

oDemon Figurine

oLion Tooth Juju

oGuise: Small Robot

oGuise: Zombie Civilian

oGuise: Hillbilly Zombie

oGuise: Hallucination

oExpendable Guise: Brainiac Unit

oExpendable Guise: Morrowbot

oExpendable Guise: HIVE Drone

oExpendable Guise: Amazon

oExpendable Guise: Assassin

oForm: Robot Pterosaur

oForm: Angry Gorilla

oForm: Snowman

oProto Repair-Bot

oProto Bank-Bot

oProto Mail-Bot

oPortable Workstation

oProto Broker-Bot

oBoogie Bomb

oSnow Globe Bomb

oFrosty Bomb

Definitely. It's a simple game of differentiating causes and effects. If an ability is out of balance, it will yield noticeable effects in game. If it yields noticeable effects in game, people will create QQ threads. But, the developers don't just willynilly nerf abilities based on QQ threads alone. They follow that chain backwards. They trace it back to see if the ability is actually, in fact, out of balance. If it is not, they don't touch it. If it is, they do. It seems a lot of players assume that the devs only nerf based on QQ threads. They don't stop to really think though what they would honestly do if they were in Spytle's shoes or Tunso's shoes. How would you go about your day? How would you go about making tweaks? Would you ignore community feedback altogether? Would you take action on every piece of community feedback you see?

The only real exception is when the outcry is so prevalent in the playerbase, e.g. the community is fairly unified in their feedback, then they might give it extra consideration. An example of that is the recent conversation around serums and the action to have them share cooldowns with sodas.