Discussion in 'War Room (Powers, Artifacts, & Builds)' started by Kabr, Jan 10, 2022.

  1. AGGUSTEN Well-Known Player

    Literally, icy breath is a waste ... I confirm what you say, even using iconic powers for a focused rotation in the corridors does not get considerable damage.
  2. AGGUSTEN Well-Known Player

    The truth is that nature has very useless powers that waste space (dog form, swarm, and probably because of the high cost of 10,000 superchange, chaotic growth). The insect form is not used to heal, and it cannot be compared with the transformation that sorcery has that at least regenerates you faster power ...
    As stated before, the only decent power for a damage blast is wild growth, but it has 2 drawbacks, it is not enough, and it is a melee power.
    The fact that nature has a total of 4 (FOUR) supercharging slots to transform (2 useless), 2 useless powers, means that in reality, 4 possibilities of having good powers and more rotation variability are lost, as you can see in ice. or fire ... The truth is that for me, the powers of the branch of transformation must be largely removed, at least the 2 transformations that are left over, and the branch of botanical powers, the plants, must be enlarged ... so much for DPS and Heal, is the most important, the most used and gives good results, despite having a small amount ..

    Well, but now, ceasing to regret the changes that are not going to occur, and what should have been ... For the corridors the most viable thing that I have found as said above, is to use some iconic and movement powers, mainly and unfortunately very short range powers, I don't use speed, I don't like it.
    The flight powers although they don't have a great damage, they are very fast, so I can execute at least 4 powers in a row (including the iconic ones) after wild growth until its cooldown is finished ... however despite all the tests I've done and different rotations, the teaching is the same, the useless powers of transformation take away from us having better botanical powers.
    • Like x 1
  3. AGGUSTEN Well-Known Player

    If you don't want to change the useless powers and make new ones, fine. But I do not understand the fact of limiting the Impaling Thorns power to only affect a target in a damage that does not even exceed wild growth, it is a joke that in gorilla form it only affects only 2 enemies, it has all the graphics and range of be a power like sonic scream and roar, affecting everyone in the area ... but no, it's like the basic Vine Lash, if they changed this, nature would improve a bit ...
    (No, its not me xd)
    • Like x 2
  4. AGGUSTEN Well-Known Player

    Useless powers

    powers that are not used or are not viable

    powers that can be enhanced and balanced:
    I would minimally replace the first four with other botanical powers.
  5. DeitySupreme Loyal Player

    See that’s different. I can understand wanting the power set to do more with its own set. However every single power has useless abilities. Saying nature is a garbage power is laughable. Nature can utilize outside tools better than most powers and is the most versatile because of it. Unlike other powers nature can’t use just 2 loadouts and players seem to not know how so they make false statements. For example. Someone saying FB is a bad power clearly doesn’t know how to use it since it’s one of the stronger powers available to all power sets
    • Like x 1
  6. Drathmor Unwavering Player

    I would never say nature is a garbage power its near and dear to my Heart. Dot powers are king in any new content or content with lots of adds with high health. its only as people get geared were burst takes over or content dependent simply by its design.

    no power is a garbage power there all good in their own ways. its only people who think the scoreboard is all, that think like that to begin with and if I had a way to name those people id say they are garbage people ;).

    people should utilize what ever they feel fits their narrative or playstyle or what ever they feel is fun. If trying to be the best is fun I say go for it I know I compete my self simply as a gage to know if im doing well(we all know it strokes our egos a bit if we put out the most). but I don't let it hurt my feelings if someone tops me I might want to know what they are doing as its rare to be beaten badly as most aren't that good but those unicorns exists and throw out crazy numbers, good for them! It just makes my run easier
  7. ItsSeven Level 30

    Lmao, saying someone doesn’t know how to use a single power(not power set) is asinine. You just pop the ability. FB being better than a lot of the universal powers isn’t saying much. A shiny turd is still a turd, but what I think or what you think of FB isn’t important, that’s just one power and not the topic of this discussion. Also, no good DPS only uses two loadouts, to assume that because I said that nature isn’t competitive is incredibly stupid. None of what I said is false, I offered you a chance to prove what you were saying and you didn’t take me up on my offer. It isn’t even about the damage chasing either, if the group is struggling, who do you think they’re going to kick? The people not pulling their weight. With that being said, I was clear that I was talking about nature in competent groups, in your run of the mill pug group, any power can do well, but nobody who cares about getting better should use that as measuring stick. Different loadouts for different situations or not, the max potential of nature is much lower than that of other powers in the current meta and content

    You call yourself a casual player, and based off the loadout videos I’ve seen on your YouTube, it shows, even for the time period and even if the movement mode variant loadouts are excluded. I understand you’re only trying to help the community, and for people looking for direction, they work, but I don’t understand why you’re willing to die on this hill. I don’t go around calling myself or thinking I’m the best player, but I know well enough that I’m a much more hardcore player with the content my league and friend group beat. You’re free to believe what you want, but to call someone else’s reasoning false just because you think that all it takes for every single power is a little experimenting is ridiculous. There’s a reason there’s a meta and nature isn’t a part of it, there are other powers that aren’t part of the DPS meta like Celestial, HL, Mental, Rage, and Fire to name a few, but they’ll fare much better than the likes of Nature and Ice for example. I’d agree with you if this thread was about any of those other powers, and while they won’t do gadgets or elec numbers, they’re quite capable. In the context of nature though, my thoughts differ.
  8. DeitySupreme Loyal Player

    Now who is assuming. I clearly stated early on that nature is not a power that you just use 2 loadouts with. I said that at the very start, but you assume I only use 2 loadouts lol. And again when did I say I wouldn’t be using the meta set up? Again that was what you assumed. It’s obvious that in an elite meta group you’d use trans strat and Gemini. When did I say it wouldn’t be using that? And when exactly did I say that nature would ONLY. Be using that? I said multiple times that nature is a power that had more variety and requires more work. More artifacts too. You are the one that assumed. And again you said that nature has lower potential than other powers when that itself is false. You keep trying to say it’s not competitive but than want to say that it’s not a meta power. If that’s the case all powers that aren’t electric or gadgets are bad powers and aren’t meta,

    Now as for you referring to my year old videos that I don’t even promote. They were clearly not made around using meta cause than they’d be copy paste superspeed loadouts. Or I would use bugs within power sets like nature using other nature dps nature poison ticks for damage or nature dpsing in healer role but still getting the damage role buff when they weren’t supposed too. They were clearly targeted towards the common player who weren’t running with sweaty scoreboard chasers all running Gemini to feed each other.

    And finally yes I am a casual player. But assuming you’re better because you’re a hardcore player is laughable. Assuming someone can’t take it up a notch and play like a hardcore player is not reality. There are actually good casual players out there. That just like there are sweaty dps out there who are only doing good because they switch to the fotm and copy paste what others are using.

    Bottom line is that this is about nature. Nature has far more potential than you clearly now about it. Someone says it’s good and you instantly go “that’s not true. I don’t know how to bring out its potential so it must be false”. Maybe try getting over yourself and seeing if maybe someone can actually do more with it than you realized. And no before you start saying I’m picking on you or anything. I’m not calling you a bad player. Just saying you don’t know how to use nature to its max potential.
    • Like x 3
  9. ItsSeven Level 30

    Not once did I say that you use 2 loadouts, when I said that no good dps only uses 2 loadouts, I wasn’t referring to you. Not once did I say you wouldn’t be using the meta art setup. What I said was regardless of how many loadouts or art setup you carry, it’s not competitive, that includes the meta one. Did you even read what I last typed? I listed a bunch of powers that while they won’t do gadgets or elec damage, they’re quite capable. I’ve already understood what you’re trying to tell me. What I’m trying to tell you is opposite, even if someone played nature to it’s max potential, it won’t be competitive. It’s laughable that you think players can just turn it up and play like a hardcore player. If that was the case, there wouldn’t be so many threads asking for things to be nerfed and there would be more players beating hard content. That being said, I also never said there weren’t diamonds in the rough, but the likelihood of your average casual player knowing what I or many other endgame players know is unlikely. There is still a disparity even between players who go FOTM powers and copy what better players do because as you know, rotation is only part of being a dps, and even if they get that right, there’s still the matter of using your resources like orbitals and supercharges properly or positioning yourself in a raid.

    And you have not provided one concrete example as to what would make nature competitive. All you’ve given is a very generic statements, your best reasoning was flexibility. I’ve already told you why I believe it won’t be competitive despite that, your only other rebuttal is because “someone doesn’t know how to play it properly.” That’s not a good enough reasoning if it’s your only one, it’s the equivalent of me going to someone and saying martial arts prec is competitive, you just don’t know how to use it, maybe not to the same degree of ridiculousness but you get the point. While I may not be a nature wiz, I do know someone who is, he’s been nature for many years and was beating top tier gadgets and elec dps even after it’s FGSe nerf in CTe and COUe. If you don’t believe me, I could direct you to his YouTube even though he hasn’t posted in a while. Even he switched because there wasn’t more that could be done with nature(although he still experiments with nature on his alt) due to the meta further evolving and he’s one who has tried all movement modes to see if there was something there. Reason I mention this is because I wouldn’t have said what I said without consulting someone who did know everything there is to know about nature since I wanted to switch to it. I could send you screenshots of my conversations with him in a PM if you think I’m lying. I know it’s common for people to come on the forums to make statements without doing any sort of research. Instead of trying to convince me with “you just don’t know how to use the power” put your theory to the test and take up my offer if you’re so adamant about nature. Or at least provide some genuine reason. Otherwise I’ll continue to believe what I believe and just agree to disagree.
    • Like x 1
  10. Nautical enthusiast Well-Known Player

    Nature doesn’t suck but it doesn’t compete with top prec gadget or elec player.
    Hallway damage sucks since the wolf nerf. Versal is 100% correct, There is no loadout that can compete with brawling eog.

    Saying it’s not the power, it’s the player blah blah blah nonsense . Not every power has the same potential.

    But what do I know, I only been nature for the last 11 years.
  11. Stamen Dedicated Player

    I'm only back a week but it seems pretty much the same to me. Nature never looked good on the dps boards because of the slow wind up. Once it all starts cranking its decent. But expect burst damage peeps to look better because they get to good numbers so much faster. I will be curious to see though how it does at max CR. Have a ways to go.

    Personally I think it's the most fun power to play though regardless. Isn't that what counts? ;)

    It was never the best DPS set.
    • Like x 2
  12. Tilz Loyal Player


    Nature Might is pretty on a bad spot. Prec side is.. well.. prec.. :D (i enjoy healing with it)
  13. Charlieboy Well-Known Player

    I love nature and had a nature toon since day 1, but the state of the power has left me not wanting to DPS anymore, all the fun has been taken out of the power with the increase of SC transformations. May as well just use NVB. The who reason for being nature was the ability to transform and that has been made redundant. Even where nature should have some ability to 'catch-up' damage, in boss fights, the more recent content mechanics means you cant keep up the poison dots without the need to apply. Don't even start me on cut-scenes mid fight, cos that's another subject altogether.

    I also don't like using iconics if I can help it, otherwise your driven down the ObsidianChill route of whirling dervish etc etc. I would class myself very proficient as a nature player and agree that you need multiple loadouts to be effective, you always did, but (ignoring the cries not to) they fixed the broken elements of things such as dot sharing, and instead of leaving it there, they folded to the whining cries of the 'forum monkeys' who demanded it got nerfed. How dare nature have a better damage output than gadgets or prec.

    One thing I will say is that I still Nature heal and it is very true to say that when it comes to nature healing you really need to know the power. I also electric and celestial heal and to be frank I enjoy nature healing more and, especially with the right artifacts, I get the job done well. Take some time and explore nature healing and you may be surprised but don't expect a turnaround of the DPS side as this has been on so many threads and is always ignored.
    • Like x 2
  14. Tilz Loyal Player

    What artifacts are you using? :)
  15. Charlieboy Well-Known Player

    I use two builds, a pure healer build and a gemini build.

    For standard healer build I use Trans Card, Strat Card and Page of Destiny (I like the 'safety net' that Page of Destiny gives you and am used to this from electric healing loadout)

    For gemini build I use EOG (obviously) Soul Cloak and Page of Destiny. Have two 2500 power cost SC's in loadout to trigger gemini almost constantly. (I can feel the comments coming after I typed this).

    Let me know if I can help anymore.
    • Like x 1
  16. Drathmor Unwavering Player

    I personally would swap Strat for Purple healing ray just a suggestion but you do you :D
  17. Charlieboy Well-Known Player

    Strangely enough I have Purple Healing Ray levelled to 200 anyway, but cant seem to get along with it. The amount of times before it procs just seems too many to me and for what, a heal over time, which I get without the effort from the Strat Card, or a shield for me and one other. Not a very strong shield for only 20% of damage for 8 seconds. That's not going to save a tank. Now if they have made this a group 8 person shield then I would consider it useful but no such luck.

    I think its important to use what you are comfortable with and I honestly can say that I started using the Stat Card simply because it was on my DPS build, so one less artifact to level up. Since then I have just stuck with it. I have proper long term healers in my league and they use Strat Card for the heal over time they are missing from electric healing, not an issue with nature. Why don't they do a burst heal artifact for us! I suppose page of Destiny is a good alternative and that's why I do rely on that.