Nature and Weapon Mastery....

I love how people always bring up the youtube channel thing lol I don't put vids up to be cool or get people to like me i do it to help cause you certainly can't come here if you want any good info thats for sure.

And working great for you and what i'm talking about are 2 different things. I'm glad you beat or keep up with the people you play with, but if you played other powers and were good with them you would notice a difference. I know no matter what i say will change your mind and i don't even know why i though there might be some logical people in the forums..so hey join the rest of your unskilled forum buddies and help ruin the game some more man. haha

Never said I was the best. "One of the top" were the words that I chose and it wasn't an egotistical statement. I was just trying to express how baffled I am by nature DPs who are unhappy with their power. My response wasn't a challenge or beating of my chest, it was to show that I'm willing to back up my words with my toons name

Never heard of you! Im back just needed some away time from this discussion but im here ready continue to help out.

Crappy, you said there were only two ways to play nature: with poisons or without. How many poisons though? How many until you've wasted too much time away from WM combos?

In every content rite now if your putting poisons on anything but bosses its a waste of time and a loss in dps, and when it comes to bosses you have to use all 3 and swarm. Rite now everything is a joke so you can get close to use savage growth but when the new raids come out i highly doubt you will be able to get that close. And with only 2 dots thats gonna put nature down even more then it is now.

I played with one of the big nature supporters yesterday who says nature is fine the way it is. You know who you are lol. They actually did a good job and we beat the alert in 20 minutes with the 2 DPS, troll, tank setup. It wasn't the fastest run but still a great run. They ran the both standard load outs.

Well as long as we complete the alert smoothly everyone should be happy. But I think it was an eye opening experience though when they finished second by over a mil. Look when I was nature I topped the boards every time as well. But once you switch powers and try something that can has dots, burst and wm crits you will see a difference. After playing Rage, Sorcery, and Ice after I was Nature it became apparent Nature is lacking.

I'm not saying you can't be great with Nature. What I am saying is you'd probably be better with another power.

Really? So some of those clue-less people actually have a Nature toon? I find that shocking...

At some point all of them will realize the actual state of Nature DPS - probably when Survival mode and/or T6 raids hit live and that 1 mill turns turn into 5mill behind top DPS. Then we will just have to beg the devs for a few months - no more than a year - to un-nerf our powerset and maybe they'll let us use Swarm with WM at some point...

smh

To be honest, I have a completely different feeling about nature dps in Survival mode.
I'm not saying you are wrong, i might be the wrong one, but i'd like to give it a try first on test server asap.

Right now in survival mode nature would shine in it's current state, nature is behind because the adds die to fast to stack dots. I was going against a sorcery dps in t6 the other day, after doing all the adds he was beating me by 300k, at the end of the alert he had me by like 200k, because I was able to stack dots on the bosses.

If sorcery do fine using fury instead of WM and players say they were right there with them, u gotta ask yourself what changed? Sorcery didn't get a buff. Nature is always better at the beginning of a tier(raid) and fall behind at the end, because we can't stack dots anymore.

If survival mode was to hit today, nature would prolly be top dps again. Anyone who played nature know we always fall behind at the end of tier or when adds die to fast, if nature had wm with dots we would still be behind. Even with WM we still wouldn't be able to stack dots, so what would the difference be?

Basically - we'd have options. As opposed to every Nature DPS running with the same 2 loadouts on armories - as it is now.
We could do what other powersets can do - have a DOT(-s) of our choice ticking while making the most of WM (since they decided to make it so OP that it's indispensable and clipping tools, like Karmic Hex and PD are now useless) .

Simple example. On adds I could use Savage Growth, then do WM combos finishing with Voracious Plants, which would have WM Crit bonus and PI bonus from the DOT (as opposed to Serpent Call, which is weak and a waste of damage, or Ampoule Of Terror which takes up consumable slot). Every time my SG DOT tick would fall at the moment I'm finishing a WM combo - it would get a bonus as well. Neither of the DOTs nor Swarm are OP by themselves (Swarm doesn't begin to compare with Fury) and if I use this method right now - Voracious Plants is just a waste of time and the 1-2 DOTs are nowhere near strong enough to compensate. So now I have to take the other 2 DOTs and Harvest , but at this point there is no way to stack them quickly on adds and I can't do long WM combos in between, so might as well just drop all of them, make the only WM loadout that kind-of works with WM (SCall,VP,Carnage,HM, Robot and SC) and yawn myself to death.

If Harvest refreshing DOTs is what makes Nature "awesome" - then they should have made that trigger the nerf of the WM bonus - not every single DOT. And what's OP about Swarm, that reduces my Voracious Plants damage from consistent 4-5k, every 2-5 sec (depending on combo) to 700-2k? Does Swarm do 1000/s? No, I didn't think so...

I can imagine (and I have to, since the nerf has been imposed hastily just before WM hit live) that having all 3 DOTs on Wolf loadout + Harvest + Swarm + WM bonus on VP could be OP in optimal conditions - in an all-boss instance like PB or PW EO, so I understand a need for some kind of limitations. Although - we're already at a disadvantage in lower-tier and small group content since we can't stack DOTs and have nothing better in terms of burst damage, than Gag Glove iconic. But the way nerf has been implemented is arbitrary, largely unnecessary and takes away any originality Nature DPS could have had left.

Why not just put Briar, VineLash, Savage Growth, Swarm and Harvest on 1 node on the power tree, that costs 5 PP (Maybe add Wolf Form as well, since it will never again be used as anything other than extra loadout for stacking DOTs at the beginning of a boss fight?) It would save everyone a bunch of clicks when respecing.

Now, will the all-DOT+Swarm "cookie cutter" loadout be enough to keep up with WM DPS in raids and survival - we'll see. But even if it does - it will only do well, if other powersets can't pull off their WM combos with finishers (the WM bonust Burs powers - not the 35% ones, which are now mostly a waste of time as well) - especially the melee ones. So I'm hoping for A LOT of countering mechanics...


And one more thing - you know that Nature has been severely nerfed, if even people who claim that it's fine - can only "brag" about how they were out-DPSed only by a few hundred thousand... If it were fine, statistically at least once in a while one of you would catch a Sorcery/Rage player on an off-day and tell me - or show in a vid - how you actually topped the score... Before WM - that used to happen.

Lol some people just pick what battles they wanna fight. NATURE IS BEHIND BECAUSE WE CAN"T STACK DOTS BECAUSE EVERYTHING DIE SO FAST. Anyone who been nature or have been dps'n with nature over 2 years know when content become easy or adds die fast nature fall behind. This happen everytime the content get easy. I wasn't bragging about losing by 200k I was showing the example that when things die fast we fall behind, but when we can't get our dots off we are fine. If wm worked with dots, we will still be behind, because we wouldn't be able to get them up. It seems to me the players who are complaining just started dpsing with nature a little while ago, because they fail to understand if stuff die before dots nature fall behind.

How are sorcery dps still doing fine using fury? Sorcery didn't get a buff. If you were hanging and/or beating sorcery w/o wm why is it a sorcery dps using fury can beat a nature dps using dots? Because everything is dying fast now, but players don't wanna see that

Look - I have no interest in convincing you, or anyone else. If you need to see it to believe it - have it your way.

use your dots only on bosses... it will solve your problem

Maybe you missed the testing i did in a few gates runs where all the dps had on un modded t3 gear to simulate what it would be like in a raid where everything has a lot of health. You should go back and read it, cause even with my 3 dots and swarm i still couldn't keep up with the burst damage plus dots everyone else has despite having 4 dots up.

Am I the only one that has noticed Ver. Plants is not working with the PI?
I was trying at the dummy and casting carnage, doin a wm then VP hits for around 2000+
Casting carnage, then briar for example then wm then VP hits for low 1k.
I did notice with swarm up hits for low too. Proving no bonus with pets :/
Also tried without mastery, with pi and without. And same result just lowerbecause no bonus.

Tried again but with serpent call and looks like the terror PI does give it a boost. Makes it hit for about 3300.

So GU37 is going to negatively effect the hopes of getting nature fixed. Now that ice lost RG, Mental lost TT, and Sorcery lost Trans(can't confirm though) and the ninja nerf of outrage, their numbers will go down. Nature will look a little better against these powers and people will say "look its OK I told you so" lol.

Maybe they'll just nerf everything down to natures level now. Typical.

Sorry if this has already been posted, but I have noticed that the Swarm damage is less than what it used to be.
My main role is troll so I don't play my nature dps that often. Usually when I used my swarm I had dmg of 200-300 ticks but I noticed that now the ticks have the odd 50- 60 ticks in them. My CR of my nature dps is 103.
I have tried to look at some notes and cant see anything on reduced damage. I thought I would post here to see if any other nature dps have noticed the same.
Any info would be great.

How many targets did you use it on? It does split and I tested it on some 100+ CR NPCs and it is hitting like normal.

This is the 2nd time ill say this. Because it appears that most of the nature community still doesn't get it. Thinking everything is balanced. Thinking swarm is worth losing crit. So on and so forth.

Lol only few of us agree with this it seems. Shapeshifting is completely pointless. People seem to misunderstand how bad it truely is. Not even WM will save it but whatever im done beating a dead horse.

All in all nature needs more additions to terror. Thorn Burst needs to go for a terror move. Also a reworking to those terrible supercharges in the flora pool. A better burst heal would be great. Shapeshifting gone in a whole because the game has completely outgrown it. More terror moves in Fauna pool in place of Shapeshifting moves. Roar applying like plasma wretch. Swarm no longer dropping WM crit and working with terror (swarms dmg is not worth losing WM crit and kinda sick of saying this). Hive mind moving to 15% of might and restoration. In place for the gorilla move I even would like calling a pack of wolfs sorta like mass hysteria in to help you. There dmg would do Apply terror to help with your PI's or they would work with it whatever choice is less OP. Also maybe adding 15% precision and might to rampage making it better in the long run. Did I miss anything? Nope think that covers all the issues with nature.

What WM did to nature is a nightmare. It's just a shame that more people don't actually pay attention to the dmg difference. But again no reason to beat a dead horse. The above changes will never happen and nor will the nature community agree with it. Because the way everything is going is huge health bars on bosses so most won't complain about it.

Looking at the nature tree in a whole you can easily see how bad WM has screwed it. More then 50% of its moves have been taken away WM crit just by using it. THERE IS NO OTHER POWER LIKE THIS. A pet that doesn't even do enough dmg to even lose the crit but still loses it. Moves in the pool that are completely useless and have 0 viability right now ( Thorn Burst and Shapeshifting). Burst heals that either take to long, are restricted by range, or have a higher chance to kill the group because they drop HoT. There's also no real options in terror which is newly natures 2nd PI. There are 3 whole moves there what are we supposed to do with that besides add buffs.

But nope lets not point out these enormous issues with the new nature. Lets just say its fine Shapeshifting just needs WM and its good. Are you kidding me? Shapeshifting was a lost cause after phase dodge was nerfed and remain the same lost cost then as it is now. So lets get over it please as a group just understand there's 0 reason for it now. But I already know theres gonna be 0 support for this so it was all a waste of time anyway.

Nature is FAR from even with anything else. The most important part to WM it doesn't even get. But if your going the dot route with enough of them it doesnt really matter honestly. Let's just realize the issues of nature and not say its PERFECTLY fine cause its completely not.