Test Discussion Munitions Power

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by spord, Mar 13, 2015.

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  1. spord Developer

    I forgot about the supercharges earlier but I am changing Mounted Turret to refresh Bullet Frenzy and Eye of the Tiger if you already have them. You can already work Biggun into a rotation without losing the buff so it isn't changing.
    • Like x 8
  2. Wanning Comet Committed Player

    Will there be any change to how SC builds while in Bullet Frenzy, the rate of SC generation seems very low compared to Ice or Quantum.
    • Like x 2
  3. JUGGER Active Player

    Hello Spord I want to say great job so far you and the other devs are doing with Munitions and the other Powersets. One thing I would like you all to look into is making Super Charges more effective, like giving them a buff added to your player for a short time after use to make them worth while adding to the loadout. Something like after using Bigguns for 8 secs you gain 10% crit hit chance. Currently adding a 50% SC even a 25% isn't really worth losing a extra loadout spot, when the damage SC don't really do much more damage then a regular power when bullet frenzy is in effect.
  4. Remander Steadfast Player

    You really don't need 6 tray spots for the AM. There's room for a SC. Mounted Turret, assuming the SC regeneration is addressed, will be a nice, spammable SC. Biggun hits very hard. Both will get use. No point in adding buffs or other such bonuses to them.
    • Like x 1
  5. TheDark Devoted Player

    Munitions Control Effects in Controller Role

    Glory Tree
    Laser Net Launcher
    Grounds then Stun
    Max Range for CC
    Doesn't allow for pulling from an ability like Grapple Line which makes it likely this power doesn't allow for pulls like the way PDart, Anomaly, DW, Tach Burst work on 1/all targets. It is not an encasement.

    Multi Net Launcher
    Stuns
    With hold or tap range it Pulls then Stuns again
    4 targets max for stun and pull
    Doesn't allow for pulling from an ability like Grapple Line which makes it likely this power doesn't allow for pulls.

    Survival
    Immunity lasts 4.6 seconds
    Cool down of 12.6 seconds

    Particle Gun
    1 target
    Stun, ground then stun again
    Max Range for CC
    Other pull control effects work.

    Flak Cannon
    4 targets
    Knockdown then stun
    Max Range for CC
    Other pull control effects work.

    Smoke Grenade
    8 targets
    stuns
    Max Range for CC
    Other pull control effects work.

    Small Package
    Deals 2 stuns on 1 target
    Max Range for CC
    Other pull control effects work.
    The stun ends prematurely

    'Splosion
    4 targets
    Knockdown
    Close range only for c.e.
    Other pull control effects work.

    Railguns
    4 targets then 1 to 2 targets per hit on NPCs that weren't hit by the first knockdown
    Knockdown
    Max Range for CC
    Other pull control effects work.




    Guts Tree
    Chain Grenade Launcher
    Stuns 1 target then stuns 8+ targets after explosion similar to Sticky Bomb except it's just 1 knockdown
    stun then knockdown then stun again
    Max Range for CC
    Other pull control effects work.

    Pump Action Shotgun
    4 to 5 targets in its cone AoE
    Push
    Push distance is very short. Must be in mid range distance for push control effect to land.
    Other pull control effects work.

    Chain Gun
    Push then stun then another stun
    Pushes 8 targets twice then stuns 2 targets only
    Those 2 targets cannot be pulled
    Max range for CC.

    Rocket Retreat
    8 targets
    Knockdown then stun
    Close to melee range for max CC
    Other pull control effects work.

    Rocket Jump
    8 targets
    Knockdown
    Melee range for max CC
    Other pull Control effects work.

    Rocket Launcher
    5 targets
    Knockdown
    Max Range for CC
    Other pull control effects work.

    50 Cal
    4 targets
    Knockdown
    Max Range for CC
    Other pull control effects work.

    MiniNuke
    4 targets only
    Knockdown
    Max Range for CC
    Other pull control effects work.

    Five Barrel Minigun
    Pushes 8 targets up to 3 times then stuns 2 only
    Push then stun then stun again
    Max Range for CC
    The 2 stunned targets cannot be pulled by other powers.

    Shrapnel Grenade Launcher
    5 to 6+ targets
    Knockdown
    Max Range for CC
    Other pull control effects work.


    I did not touch supercharge CC abilities. Takes too long.
    Abilities that stun do result in being controlled for 15 seconds at base plus your dom. All Knockdowns, from other powersets too, always last about 2 seconds.
    Only Small Package's stun ended at 12 to 14 seconds & ignored my Dom addition to stun duration.
    • Like x 3
  6. Lt Skymaster Dedicated Player

    Mini Nuke Flash

    I don't know if it was fixed but I saw it today again standing in the monitor womb, I had orange flashes that were actually coming from where the sparing targets are. I like the new casting animation for Mininuke although it seems kinda slow.

    Pull and stuns update:
    I really liked what you did with the multinet pull and the stuns among those with smoke grenade launcher they work nicely, still i would like some stuns to be able to be pulled by a tank.

    Channeled Debuffs:
    I have a small problem with the channeled debuff though, the only other power with channeled debuff is Light and well after the last update to Light it doesnt work properly like I show in this videos :





    I don't want the same thing happening to Munitions.
    Thankfully I can't reproduce the same situation with munitions but I don't want it to happen in future updates.
    Also while the idea of changing 1 debuff to non channeled i would say it's better to have non channeled debuffs at all for the same exact reason.

    Just giving out my ideas, it doest mean it has to be that way. If there wasn't that kind of problems I would be perfectly ok with channeled debuffs.
  7. TheDark Devoted Player

    From what I gathered there are only 4 powers in Munitions that don't allow for physical pull control effect overwriting.
    1 is single target. Multinet does it to 4 but the Controller can pull them anyway. It's just trickier to double jump. atleast it was for me on the keyboard. The other 2 aren't programmed to allow pulls and it's only on 2 targets.

    Everything else allows for Tanks and other Controllers to pull. It really isn't apokoliptic as some folks have made it seem in the past. Most of the time it's just players who aren't aware of active immunities or aware of the countdown to immunity has already begun. Those are most often the reasons tank's cannot pull NPCs.

    Personally I think some should be applying a specific control effect and control X NPCs over the others but the changes are good.
    • Like x 1
  8. American Marksman Active Player

    Only qualm I have about the powerset so far (Spord you guys did an amazing job) is that the damage for mini nuke is not that good for it being a higher tier power. I think either the damage needs to be increased or it should apply burning so you can keep the damage as is but add a dot to it. Maybe later on down the road when you guys make atomic it can apply the radiation effect with damage over time. Just throwing ideas out there. As you can see by my name I will definitely be switching to munitions though.
  9. ACW37162 Loyal Player


    Your right I dont think its an exceptionally big deal in fact I think it's an exceptionally small thing.

    It also an exceptionally small thing that I believe makes a enormous difference.

    Yes with some time practice and patience you can take a slightly awkward clunky power set commit a set of visual clues or muscle memory and get real good maybe even venturing a guess be 90% percent plus hitting the tiki does perfectly in a raid setting and enjoybthebpower very much.

    Or you could figure out a way to make the transition from channeled power to channeled power less awkward and clunky and instead more smooth and gratifying. You could take something that frustrates players (and I'm not just speaking for myself several players have echoed this sentiment) and find a way to improve the messaging so transitions have a substantive flow and not this jerky, jerky, hitcy mash buttons over and over process.

    It's not huge at all but where you see nothing I see a very small change that could take a really nice new power set and make it a great new powerset. Not just because the numbers it throws up are fantastic but because the players feel the transitions as smooth and fun when executed correctly and not clunkyish.

    I offered up input timing variations going you a small window to pre-load you next channel. Not possible
    I suggested cold down timers on the channeled powers for visual messaging as to when the channel was about to end. Can't add UI additions
    Karasawa suggested cast bars. Removed from normal powers

    The power functions and it good.
    I think improving the feel would improve it's playability and enjoy ability.

    I also think there is some middle ground to be found between play with it until you figures it out and the suggestions listed above. And would appreciate any help in finding it.

    After all this is not about making the power OP or easy it's about making the experience of playing the power more rewarding which I think we can all agree is something we all want.
    • Like x 1
  10. Superskull85 Devoted Player

    spord is there any chance of converting some of the channels to single target only for situations where single target damage is useful?Would make sense functionality-wise given all of the choices. For example does Five-Barrel Minigun and Chaingun really need to be basically the same thing?

    I would vote for Particle Gun, 50 Cal and Chain Gun to be single target only purely from both aesthetic and Power Interaction setup perspectives. This would leave Rocket Launcher for medium radius and Rail Gun, Shrapnel Grenade Launcher, Five Barrel Minigun for large radius at full to mid-range. Then 'Splosion for that easy Solo and Duo close range functionality.

    This would keep the variety intact while reducing redundancy and increase functionality. In scenarios where you just have a boss either channel would work well. However when you want to specifically target Ares in Throne of the Dead or Cerberus in Halls of Hades (so that you don't kill the handlers for the feat) single target damage is very useful.

    I don't particularly care which channels are single target as long as there are 3 to complete a full rotation. This is something that is lacking in a lot of powersets but very useful when the situation calls for it. Would be nice to have a Might alternative for single target damage.
  11. Wanning Comet Committed Player

    My big complaint about the DPS side of the power is that many of the timing on going from channel to channel just feel..clunky. I've tried going on test and trying the power probably 2 or 3 times now and I often stop playing it because I just don't really have much idea on how to consistently string the channels together. I know I could probably learn the timing either thru repetition or by watching the animation cues or listening for the audio cues but I'd rather that it was more intuitive than that. I'm not sure if being able to queue the next channel power would help, but it might.

    I honestly picked up WM within about five minutes, but chaining some of the channels together for bullet frenzy just doesn't work for me. Tonight I was trying 5 Barrel Minigun, Rocket Launcher, and 50 Cal as the Bullet Frenzy moves and the only power I was comfortable with chaining from was 50 Cal because the animation and the audio queue line up well with when the channel ends and the next input can be received.

    This is honestly a L2P issue but it'd be nice if some of the channels were easier to transition to each other, I don't really know of a very good way to accomplish that, though.
  12. o0Fallou0o Level 30

    I am loving this power. Probably one of the best PvE dps power ever and trolling is very fun. I like the changes with colors on headband. The stuns are not too bad. I think Mini Nuke looks awesome but is by no means worthy of the name nuke more like Glorified Fire Cracker as the damage no where close to top tier worthy or the name nuke. I mean splosion in the am should be where mini nuke is and mini nuke where splosion is and usable in the am. I mean seriously.... a nuke? mini or not it is lacking.

    Also people who make toons with this power will never pvp with good success with this power. This power is a vulnerability fest. Those who need to pvp and farm feats in pvp on new toons will struggle badly as this is quite possibly the worst power I have ever seen pvp wise. Majority of the powers are so long channeled you can knock an enemy down and they have time to get back and still lunge you for extra damage and interrupt you. You can forget using the AM unless your opponent is completely a failure at pvp and lets you do whatever you want xD ...HL AM easy enough pvp, nature easy enough ....heck i can get a mental AM rotation off easier than this in a 1v1 thats one of the hardest to get off in pvp. If you were to go against someone who knows Nature or HL well say goodbye you aint winning unless you are a exceptional dueler and a bit of good luck. You try and take on a fire tank you wont even come close to doing enough damage without the AM to kill them with their ridic heals. SO PLEASE add a optional mechanic like Distract into Emp for Gadgets so they will stand even a remote chance in pvp in arenas and open world. Like Splosion or Mini Nuke immediately after Survival instincts doing extra damage like I stated previously. Again this would also do well in assisting wiping adds if you got knocked down swarmed etc in PvE... This would atleast bring it inline with most other powers as a viable pvp option with the meager handful of powers that wont get you lunged and get wrecked for standing there forever channeling in this power set.

    Overall this is cool and fun power that looks awesome. I just dont see it worth spending money on if you cant use it in pvp and pve equally well. Just wouldnt be worth making a toon pve only and limits feat farming possibilities as well. Not good for your money or marketing as much as it is not good for the player/customer.
  13. ACW37162 Loyal Player

    The best workaround that I have found for those who struggle with the timing of moving from channeled attack to channeled attack down is to tap melee or tap range as soon as you cast the channel.

    As soon as the channel animation is finished you will preform the tap range or tap melee attack and you can immeditaly clip it into you next channel.

    The drawback here is you loose the ability to block cancel when you pre-load a weapon attack.
  14. Penryn The Gadgeteer

    Visual Bugs:

    1. Shrapnel Grenade Launcher - Sometimes you will see this power go through its firing cycle three times. However, you only get two ticks of damage:


    Most of the time you will only see the firing cycle two times.

    2. Smoke Grenade Launcher - On my character, the actual smoke grenade appears as if it is being launched from below the gun. I think it should be appearing from the tip of the launcher. Watch carefully:



    3. Laser Net Launcher and Multi-Net Launcher - The same problem as Smoke Grenade Launcher, but not quite as bad. The projectile appears below where the gun is actually firing:

    • Like x 2
  15. Blight KOBRA Commander

    This doesn't pertain to the power itself, but to the 'inspired by' character choice in the character create section. Instead of Detonator as a choice for the villain faction, who is an extreme unknown, I'd suggest you instead use villains like Deadshot, KGBeast, or Deadline. Just a suggestion.
  16. spord Developer

    We think we have a fix for Shrapnel Grenade Launcher but can't seem to reproduce what you have in your video. When we were building the power it would happen all the time and our fix wasn't good enough. This time we went a lot more aggressive with the animation change.

    The other two are problems can't be fixed with our current projectiles. They are server spawned objects that don't always line up with your client's visual effects.
  17. spord Developer

    Thanks for the list of control effects. The Chain Gun and Five-Barrel Minigun had the same bug that Smoke Grenade Launcher had and will be fixed in the next PC Test update.
    • Like x 6
  18. Penryn The Gadgeteer

    One question:
    Will a power that is labeled as "Weapon Mastery Crit Excluded" receive a power reduction bonus if it is used in Controller role as a crit finisher? I was wondering if Munitions Controllers would receive a power reduction bonus if I use something like Rocket Launcher as a crit finisher for Handblaster Explosive Shot.
  19. spord Developer

    Yes you get the power cost reduction bonus in Control role. You will not get the crit bonuses in any role.
    • Like x 6
  20. spord Developer

    Most of the problem here is with the UI. We are telling it to lower two stats and to show the red shield icon on both. That confuses the UI sometimes. So I put a fix in for Light Blast and Five-Barrel Minigun. Also for Light Blast I removed the red foot icon from showing on the extra stun in Control role because that is meant for movement resist debuffs not stuns. These changes will hopefully hit PC Test later this week.
    • Like x 8
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