Movement Balance Suggestions

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by AV, Sep 11, 2020.

  1. AV Loyal Player

    The goal here is to bring the movement modes closer in line in terms of both performance and utility while still preserving the unique flavour of each.

    Acrobatics:

    - Add a Feet Equipment Mod called "Swinging Combos" (or w/e), activated by tapping during any of the standard movement mode attacks, that does a short-range conal pbaoe attack applying a brief (~3s) DoT on par with Dashing Combos's output.
    - Reduce time before Grappling Line can be used after combat slightly.
    - Increase Grappling Line engagement distance slightly.

    Flight:
    - Change the wording and effect of Vacuum Bubble from "Release a violent pressure wave to damage and stun enemies" to "Release a violent pressure wave to damage and stun your target and enemies around them." Basically, the current version has an extremely narrow cone and it's cumbersome to use. Recommend it be a small targeted AoE in order to justify allowing it to keep being a max range attack.
    - Remove the physics lock from Swoop Attack to allow players to propel themselves forward with it (ie. mobility
    benefit to allow Flight players to keep up with Acro and SS but in a unique way) as it is in LPVE:

    - Increase Swooping Combos' damage and make it a conal pbaoe attack on par with Dashing Combos.
    - Change Swoop Attack into a conal pbaoe like it is in LPVE and increase its damage to make it a balanced melee pbaoe option in hallways to allow players to take advantage of the aforementioned physics changes after combat.
    - Increase the damage of Downdraft
    - Change the position of Dustoff and Vacuum Bubble on the skill tree
    - Change Air Burst into a (balanced) shield effect instead of a breakout.

    Super Speed:

    - Lower Tornado Pull's damage and reduce the length of its animation's dovetail
    • Like x 12
  2. AV Loyal Player

    *Minor Edit: - Remove the physics lock from Swoop Attack when movement mode is deactivated to allow players to propel themselves forward with it by jumping immediately after its activated while on the ground. (ie. mobility
    benefit to allow Flight players to keep up with Acro and SS but in a unique way) as it is in LPVE. This will also help make Flight feel more dynamic & engaging and less slow & boring.

    *Important distinction to clarify that the way it is on LPVE doesn't just launch us around willynilly but that we have complete control over the behaviour. This will give Flight a head start advantage that should even out with SS/Acro's capabilities and the mechanic as it is in LPVE simply feels good to use.
    • Like x 4
  3. Iconic Simulation YouTuber

    Maybe fix Dash Attack as well? It is bugged, by not allowing you use it while controlled. As it's description states otherwise. I left SS specifically because of this issue.
    • Like x 2
  4. AV Loyal Player

    Good call. I feel like Dustoff could stand to be tweaked as well in that it seems a bit awkward to me. Flying really does need the most love in general... Which is messed up when Swoop characters in LPVE handle so well.
    • Like x 2
  5. Elda Mad as a Hatter

    yeah the main pain with flight is that in combat, it's the slowest power. you just kinda drag midair like you're swimming through honey.
    • Like x 3
  6. Charlieboy Well-Known Player

    My main toon is flight and always has been as it kinda suits the characters style but ffs I wish it was SS like my others. The slowness coming out of combat and trying to get to the next set of adds is just too painful. In the latest raid when you are moving from one set to another the rest of the group are at the adds and causing damage and I am still slowly lumbering along trying to catch up. Yes I know, someone is just gonna reply and say 'just change to SS' but I like flight and it would be great if it had at least some of the benefits SS does.

    Increase speed to be comparable and how about making Whirlwind Attack do the same damage as Whirling Dervish as they are similar moves but the damage for Dervish is ten times more.
    • Like x 3
  7. AV Loyal Player

    Yeh that really is the biggest issue. There's no reason for flight to be so slow and lumbering. Every power should be able to do comparable but slightly different ST and AoE damage options and comparable but different means of keeping up in combat in hallways.
  8. catplaysxoxo Loyal Player

    Would adding a daze pi to swoop attack be good? From rpg perspective it sounds like it is.
  9. AV Loyal Player

    I think the unwritten rule with Movement powers is they can't have a PI attached (or at least none of the existing powers do), likely so no power that needs that PI either has an advantage or feels obligated to be a certain movement type. I like the idea but feel like it'd be pretty hard to balance.
  10. catplaysxoxo Loyal Player

    My bad I don't know why I was thinking of the Sonic Cry PI lol
    • Like x 1
  11. AV Loyal Player

    Iconics could def use some more PI options though for sure @_@
    • Like x 1
  12. Proxystar #Perception

    I personally think Flight's in combat speed should be faster, there needs to be quicker ways to move around as flight which is part of the reason why most tanks for example also refuse to use it s a movement mode.

    It also seems a little silly that open world speeds for example also result in flight being the slowest - needs a tweak.

    I also agree, when you've got the likes of whirling dervish being spammed in some loadouts and others saying serious dps only ever go acro or super speed then there's probably a balance problem.

    appreciated your ideas.
    • Like x 5
  13. catplaysxoxo Loyal Player

    I reallyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy want swoop attack to work like in PVP :( it just looks so SUPER. To stray away from all the negativity from HV perhaps a dev could chime in about this power instead. I'll replace all my toons HV loadout with Swoop Attack simply because it looks fun and only if it works like in PVP. OMG an artifact related to swoop attack O.O
    • Like x 2
  14. L T Devoted Player

    My suggestion would actually be to make Vacume Bubble the Shield move and make Dustoff a PB/Midrange AOE damage supercharge.
    • Like x 2
  15. AV Loyal Player

    As long as it still has something at range to compete with Zip Tie Attack and Tornado Pull on top of that.

    Would you still want Bubble to be an SC in that case? Also, yeah that makes a lot of sense name-wise.
  16. L T Devoted Player

    Pretty sure Flight lacks any single target attack ATM. Downdraft is full range, but it does only 90% of Throwing Knives, and about 75% of Cyclone Push (which is only mid-range, but has roughly half the cool down of the others).

    Yeah keep them both supercharges. Make Bubble the shield that keeps you in place, and make Dustoff a damaging + escape move like devastating flip.
    • Like x 2
  17. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    Also, doesn’t it basically follow shield clipping rules in that it can clip and be clipped by damn near anything? That’s where the real cheese is. Every movement mode should have something like that if that is going to remain.
  18. AV Loyal Player


    It follows standard clipping/queueing behaviour for an attack power, it just hits very hard but has a very long dovetail. This creates two opposite imbalances:

    1. Any power that can reliably clip it every time they want to cast it gains an advantage (this is less of an issue now that other things have been buffed)
    2. Despite hitting so hard, the massive dovetail generally makes it lower a rotation's DPS if it isn't clipped. From a DPS standpoint, basically Acro is pro ST right now for anyone who may need Zip Tie, SS is pro AoE, and Flight is just derp overall with the exception of Vacuum Bubble for a few niche uses on specific powers.

    So basically it's an ST substitute that's worse than anything we might substitute it in for except under certain circumstances. Just tryna bring it in line with Zip Tie Attack, which has much lower damage but is an excellent ST substitute due to there being no dovetail on it and the animation being snappy af. Same reason for the suggestion regarding a Downdraft buff essentially.

    Feel like it's ideal if each movement mode has a competitive ST substitute option (using Zip Tie as the gold standard), a competitive AoE option (using Dervish as the gold standard), a power-combo foot mod (using Dash Combo as the standard), a mobility enhancer (with SS dashing being gold standard but with acro not far behind), and a tank option (with Dash and Poise being close). I don't think they should all feel the same, but they should be able to fill the same gaps while feeling different.
  19. Mystyfy Level 30

    I have made quite a few threads asking for a movement mode overhaul and it gets ignored every time. Each time I point out how much the movement hinders combat. There's no need for such slow movement and why it wasn't addressed years ago is beyond me. I feel like fixing the swoop attack power to act that way would just be a band-aid, but at least it's a start.

    Movement should've been just as, if not more important, than the base powers initially. Kinda how the Arkham/Spider-Man PS4 games handled it, combat and movement are hand in hand. The attacks/gadgets/dodge mechanics are fairly similar in both when you think about it, yet how you move or position yourself during combat gives you loads of other options in both. Even stealth feels different, but you're going about it in a similar environment. One thing they don't do, slow you to a snail's pace when you get struck by an enemy...
    • Like x 2
  20. Charlieboy Well-Known Player

    Why has this thread gone quiet? I was really hoping something would finally get looked at and movement mode powers balanced. Devs look at this please and at least comment