Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Mepps, Dec 19, 2016.
Gadgets doesnt need a Group Shield SC. it has many things to make up for that! Thats why im gadget. i do perfectly fine with pickups with the things given to it. For me Battle Drone is one of the best SC powerwise ( if used correct ). if u cant pick up with gadget, then u need to go to an easier troll power (Quantum for example). if there is one thing that really needs to stick with gadget its that drone...
The road this update is going down will be an epic fail. It expects the players to change to accommodate the update instead of changing the update to accommodate the players. Players do not change just to accommodate a new dev vision. this update is following a vision without the considerations of the player. the play your way tag line is only if you want to play the new way. If you want to play the way you are right now it won't be possible.
The only good things out of this update are stats being removed from the weapon trees and getting all of your power points at level 30 everything else can go.
I disagree for this basic reason. I can look at another player now, (e.g Ice or HL) and tell they're doing a bad job if they're not using "the best" loadout. That's a problem in how the game is currently constructed. There should not be only one right way to play a power. All powersets should be scalable and flexible enough that a player can construct a combination of powers and weapons that they find most enjoyable and still be effective (i.e. not a drag on the group). That's the best possible outcome, and that outcome is not possible unless some core changes are made to the existing powers.
Yes, it's going to be disruptive.
Yes, it's not done yet and more feedback/changes are needed to get it right.
No, players do not all agree on what they want so "accomodating the players" is realistically impossible
While not perfect, I like what I've tested on Test so far. If it keeps down this road, it will be better for Devs and players in the long run.
That right there was the whole point of am's and weapon mastery to start with. An easy simple loadout for all players to be able to do damage. The one great thing about am's is every power plays a little different. I have leveled a toon with every power and found each am loadout to be fun to play and the different strategies you put in with those to be a lot more interesting than just pick one hand flip slash clip power.
They say they are building a foundation but the foundation already exists. They just need to fine tune and add not tear down and start over. We were so close with only a handful of powers that still needed proper updates.
Testing and testing feedback will never get it right because the testing is ultimately flawed. All of the testing has lacked baseline and variable control. It also lacks perspective of the player at each level and is only seen through the testing eyes of a vet.
Then you get to the whole will the player accept these changes. The majority of players don't exist on the forums. I would say a lot of players don't even know the forums exist. How will they react to the sudden lost of am's, the ability to troll, heal, tank as they do now in game. We take pride is being really good in playing every well. do you think someone who has worked tireless hours perfecting trolling to solo every raid is going to enjoy being told he now won't be able to do that without another troll. same can be said for every role.
Like I said before this whole update has had the tag line play your style. However that is only if you like the changes. If you like trolling, healing, tanking, dps as it is now you are out in the cold on this one.
Yes and no. Yes, the AM loadouts are significantly different compared against the different power types (e.g comparing Ice AM to Sorcery AM) but WITHIN the powerset is where AM fails and the negative your replies are ignoring. For example in Quantum there is really only one prescribed AM rotation to achive maximum benefit. Most of the powers in the rest of Quantum's tree don't get used by the vast majority of the players becasue they don't work within the AM and if you choose the other powers, your performance suffers. That's what we need to get away from, and that's what these changes have the potential to do.
I've been around this game long enough to know that being a game developer of this community is not an easy task.
You have several groups within the community, and each group want a different thing and a different direction. Some old school players want to bring back the era of jump cancelling and clipping/spam playstyle. Other folks that have recently join the game prefer the easy mode that the AM era has brought with it, nowdays everything can be overcome by bruteforce and raw DPSing.
I was optimistic about the first vision that you guys have on the 1.0 version of the revamp, but seems that the backlash of the people who want everything handed it on a silver plate made you guys afraid of your own vision of what the game should be in order to become a better version of itself.
I´m really against any kind of passive abilities, it make the players less aware of their duties and promoves a lazy and toughtless gameplay, this is not a way of make the playerbase better, or raise the knowledge of the players, its just an easy band-aid to try to compensate the bad performance within groups from some of the members of our community, old and new alike. Its like playing on "auto-pilot" mode.
Some suggestions that i have are:
1- Go back to your first idea of shared POT, but instead of make it last 6 secs up and 12 secs cooldown, make the buff last 15 secs up with a 30 secs cooldown. Its the only way to promote 2 controllers on Raid groups and it will promote team work and cooperation; making the effect last longer would make the task a little less stressful so the controller still have room to perform their other duties (CC, debuffing).
2- Power dumps should never give back power to the caster. Fix this because there is no challenge at all in terms of power management.
3- Weapon buffs should last longer. I understand the logic behind having a longer cooldown for the personal attack buffs compared to the time the effect last, but 6 secs of buff its really a short window to be able to execute a proper rotation. My suggestion is make the buff last 10 secs, with a 18 secs cooldown (still a better ratio than 12/6), with this change the player who chose to play with the buff would be able to at least execute a proper bursty rotation within the 10 secs window.
4- Introduce new tutorials at level 10-20 and 30. These should be special little instances in which the player go solo with a group of 3 iconic NPC players filling the group compostion of and ideal alert: Tank, Troll, Healer and DPS. The instance should requiere that the player execute abilities like pulling in case of tanks, group healing and prioritize healing in case of healers etc. Some of you old vets may think that this isn´t a priority, but seeing how little knoledge of the game the new players have, i think that this should be an important area to tackle while revamping the whole game.
5- Bring more mechanics and Bosses and special adds with abilities that need debuff, so the controllers have a more important role than be a battery for their teams.
6- Be brave. Trust in your instincts and vision of what the game can be. As you can see this is a heterogeneous community, and truth be told, you are never going to please everyone. So the question is: ¿You want to be remebered as the Dev who put the final nail in the coffin to DCUO, or the one who made it shine again?
Not ignoring, simply not a reason to start over, and not really the point of my post but I digress. Let's take a look at quantum. For a long time it was the go to power because of its am and every dps out there was quantum. It did great damage and then one day it wasn't competitive. But putting that a side what does a person do with all of those powers that aren't being used because they are not part of the am. It already had a burst am, so you can then build upon what already exists and add another am to it completely different that someone can use like atomic has. Why not use the other powers to add a pet, a combo mechanic, mobile damage am. Then balance that over our existing baseline. That would have been a lot easier and more widely accepted.
Are we really getting away from the negative of am's with this update. There will always be the one weapon combo that does better than others. The boring part there is everyone will still being doing the same thing. one hand flip the whole way. mash square four times then hold. maybe clip in a power if off cool down.
What was wrong with trolling that it needs to be change. Sure there are those that will say trolls don't want to be batteries. From the looks of mental the options to control are being removed.reduced not added. How are you more of a controller with half the stuns being removed. Do you find yourself as troller wanting to debuff and stun more in content right now. Did trolls really want to be restricted with cool down timers so they can't provide power. Does the content really need you to only debuff and stun. Same questions can be applied to every role . Did any role request to be restricted in their power usage and abilities.
Do you feel honestly that the players out there now on live will accept these changes. Players hate changes. people in general hate changes. GU 36, GU 47, any GU 1- 65. People take pride in what they do and how they play. When you take that away by force it will not be accepted.
Play your way unless your way is the way it is now, then it will be play our way. This goes for all roles.
Your first paragraph is probably where we're the same but different at the same time. Your assuming that taking the unused powers and reworking them into pets or other mobile capabilities ISN'T in effect starting over. Your ideas really are the same as starting over becasue all the interactio0ns within the totality of the powerset would need to be reworked to ensure the different options become viable when they aren't today. By definition, that's starting over.
To your point about still having one "best" loadout may be true but this effort comes down to magnitudeS of difference. For example, the current dps AM rotation outputs a certian amount of deamage. If I use a loadout that is not the "best" loadout, my damage output could rop as much as 10x. If the powers are reworked within acceptable margins as is the current path, there still may be a "best" loadout but I'd be fine with an alternate loadout that suits my preferences if the reduction in damage was not 10x (maybe a few % points that only matter to socrebaord chasers). Give me options where my performance is still acceptable and that's a BIG IMPROVEMENT.
The only reason I don't see adding alternative to existing Am's as starting over is because the option of having how your playing now would still exist. You would just have a different option. Like atomic i play the combo am. not the best at damage but it is ok and comparable to the burst. As things are right now I won't have the option to use my am. my style of play is gone from the game
Believe me i know about wanting alternatives. I play rage as my main. Every time I get asked to dps in a raid I decline. It is not fun to be limited but i think this update is still limiting. It's just going to be weapons now instead of powers. the only reason the 10x difference exists is everything didn't get attuned right if at all. nature and electric have been on the bench for a long time. When rage was up we provided a lot of helpful solutions to make it competitive but were ignored.
Apparently pl4y your w4y is c3nsor3d. don't want you to think i was cursing there.
Is there any reason to change the foundation of tanks, healers, and trolls. All tanks Play differently. All healers play differently. Trolls all play the same but is that really a reason to change everything else. I think the majority will be upset seeing every power on perpetual cool down. If i didn't read the forums I would think I was lagging. I think the majority will be upset when this update is forced on them.
Anything with a higher cooldown than 12 sec doesnt suit the fast game pace of dcuo and a passive pot is just boring, i personally would change the way pot works into something similar to a damage buff , since a lot of dcuos player base like to do damage while CCing why not focus on that? how about an ability which opens a window for a particular time period which restores power to the group based on the damage and duration of the CC u do as a troll divided by amount of ppl in the group per every 3 second ( vitalization & dominance needs to be part of the power back equation).
The tech for that would be similar to celestials healing regeneration based on resto and damage.
Annnd this is how misconceptions get started.
First and foremost: Pulling and Taunting/Aggroing are DIFFERENT things.
In tank role, any power you use to hit an enemy puts you on the aggro table/taunts them. Ever gone into an instance underneath the suggested dominance? If not, I highly encourage it, just to learn the role.
If, as a tank, I go into an instance under the Dom threshold and I hit something with Earthen Grip (Earth's pull), for instance, the add will not be encased/pulled, but it will turn and start walking toward me, because I'm a tank and I generate mad threat, yo. In tank role, I generate more threat than everyone else not in tank role. If I pop that sucker with Stone (Earth's single target, or override, taunt), I generate more threat than anyone else, including other tanks even if they meet the dom threshold (unless they use their single target taunt, too ).
Not all other MMOs have this whole pull idea. When you "pull" in FFXIV? You taunt. And the boss starts to mosey his way over. There's no atomic special make the dude disappear and then reappear at your feet. So, no, you do not need to be able to CC adds to do your job as a tank. You can taunt, you can mitigate damage, bam, tanking.
My pulls are my taunts
When multiple people in your group get KO'd all at the same time... Group Shields are 'wasted' on the remaining players who are left alive to rescue their fallen teammates, huh? Ummm... You cannot be serious.
OK, Just stop.
Not only was that a bad choice of wording.... but now you have resorted to making sooooo many ASSUMPTIONS about...
the exact positioning of players...
where the Phoenix is...
why the Phoenix might (or might not) move around...
who is closer to who on the battlefield...
even which player I (personally) would try to revive first...
I never mentioned ANYof that stuff you just typed.
All I said was 3-4 players got KO'd. (One died here, one here, and 2 over there)
Translation = the players are spread out.... not right on top of each other.
You took it upon yourself to decide 'who is where'... and 'who gets rescued first'... and tell us 'why wouldn't the Phoenix attack someone else'.... and why you think i'm running to the back of the room FIRST.., instead of trying to reach the 2 people in the front'.... and all sorts of other nonsense.
In combat, things do not happen like that.
Every situation in different.
You made a poor attempt to try to DEFLECT what I said earlier, which is...
You are casting 4 different powers (Battle Drone, Distract, Decoy, & Trinket) ... plus lunging at a 'moving target'... before saying one word about hitting a cog over someone 's head.
Thats it.... There's no 2 ways around that.
No matter what other 'mechanics' you attempt to 'explain away' at the same time... you are STILL casting those 4 powers before anything else.
At the end of the day....
Having a Group Shield does not diminish all the OTHER STUFF a Gadget Troll could do.
Look if the Devs decide to add it...but you (personally) still want to run around and throw out multiple powers to get the same job done.... then have at it.
After they finish with Powers and launch the Stats Matter update... hopefully the Devs will make content in the future that can accommodate BOTH of our desires.... so that everyone can each 'play the way' we prefer and have multiple loadouts. (with or without group shields involved)
For Gadgets.... having 'the option' to use Group Shields.... is better than having 'no option' to use it, in my opinion.
Hence my suggestion, in the first place.
But if the Devs do not WANT to add Group Shields.... then guess what??
Its' no big deal.
And btw, I think the Devs SHOULD give Fire Tanks a Shield Power also...., like all the other Tanks.
I don't see anything wrong with that either.... ALL Tanks should have a shield power, imo.
Lemme see if I got this right....
2 DPS have to be right next to each other,,, (Ah yes, here is yet another 'assumption' you keep making).....probably because it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE for a Tank, or Healer, or a Troll to get KO'd by any attacks from Zeus, right?
In fact, it MUST be 2 DPS, because....
1 single DPS and 1 Healer could never get KO'd by Zeus either, huh?
2 Healers could never get KO'd by Zeus either, right?
The universe would probably collapse on itself.... if 1 Troll and 1 Tank EVER got KO'd by Zeus in the front of the room.... (instead of 2 DPS)... because everyone knows you cannot even queue up to run OLY Elite with 2 trolls in your group... Isn't that right?
Yeah ok, buddy.
Obviously, there's no need to address anything else you wrote when it is filled with silly 'assumptions'.
Plus, it adds nothing to the overall conversation about Stats & Powers.
Word of Advice... Just quit while you are behind.
You are making yourself look silly.
What part of specify it yourself did you miss? You realize who and how you do pick ups varies with what role goes down and where? Stop getting mad at the details I have to put in to make an answer and create the details yourself lol
Say the group composition, where every role is on the map, which role died at what time, and due to what mechanic and what is the current state of the boss and the bird.
Devs while people are throwing out request.
I would like to make a small reasonable request.
Upon a player rally/ revive, can you add in a 3s damage immunity period.
Separate names with a comma.