So while I'm going to try to limit the number of design related threads I've got up and running to one or two at a time, this is more of a business thing Outside of legends purchases, PvP makes little to no money because there isn't really anything to buy. This translates into less developer interest. However when paying for things in PvP there's a very thin line between making something good for the game, and turning the entire thing into a pay to win setting, which ultimately will drive players from the game. I've worked with Minnion on the forums here to try and come up with some interesting ways to monetize PvP without making it pay to win. Replay Badges and Rewards A while ago these were tried in PvP when it came to marks, and this system was by far and large disliked. However, it may be time to try it again, but in a different fashion. Add additional rewards to PvP matches, such as guaranteed base/lair drops, recovery kits PvP consumables (should they be added back in), even collection items and have replay badges reset those drops. You could have them drop in a weekly or better yet, daily reward box. If you really want to get crazy you can add a special type of mark in those rewards boxes that you can use to purchase items from a new vendor. But that's a topic for another time. Obviously the cost for reset would need to be on the lower side due to the rewards not being even remotely similar to PvE, but this could be a good source of potential income. Mods in the Marketplace At the current moment it takes 5000 marks of valor to earn the top end mixed mods. You only receive 200 MoV per win at the moment, meaning to earn each of these mods it takes about 25 wins. There are 10 mods sockets which means in order to fully mod your way up it will take at least 250 wins. Putting various mods in the marketplace for a dollar or two each (something players do not need to get regularly in game unless they really want to) as an alternative for those who would rather just mod their gear and be done with it could be a good alternative as the mods are available in game. It just comes down to a basic economic principle, whether your time or money is more important to you. PvP Lockboxes Remember the dreaded PvE lockboxes that are in dire need of an update (Maybe that could be done along with this)? These could drop from KO'ing players in open world and in PvP alike and could be opened either through replay badges, subscribing, or a key similar to how lockboxes work now. They can drop anything from styles, to base amenities, to marks or whatever. One idea Minnion had was that they could drop collection pieces that could be used to unlock base amenities. These amenities could include: Phase shifter Teleporter to PvP events (also need an update hint hint) PvP Vendors A legends "holo projector" that would allow you to experiment with legends characters in your base These are just a few suggestions we had in mind that may help monetize PvP without turning it into a pay to win game. Any other ideas?
Hmmm, not sure I agree with any of these ideas man. I mean I understand the principle of it but... Replay Badges in PVP is a big hell no from me. When they tried that it was horrible (for my wallet). lol...and at this point in the game I think it would just run more people away from PVP than bring to it. I'm not a big fan of stat bonuses being sold on the Marketplace. Although I agree, 5K marks for a dual stat'd mod is a bit much. PVP Lockboxes are a decent idea. But costing Replay Badges/Key to open means they better have some seriously sexy item potential inside. Phase Shifters, Teleporters to PVP Events, and PVP Vendors isn't something I'd be interested in. As for a Legends Testing Device of some sort I don't feel needs to be "monetized". That is something that should just be part of the game. Of course there is always the Scrim option for players where they can test characters among themselves.
Reread the bit about replay badges. It wouldn't reset mark drops. Just drops from other items such as consumables, base items and that lot. Marks would still drop every time. The replays for marks in PvP was a terrible system so I do agree there. I was iffy on the mods idea myself. The reasoning behind it was that they'd be obtainable in game already through play. I think Clutch suggested something similar a while back during the HT era in regards to bonuses. What sort of items would need to be in a lockbox then?
With tiered gear and mods taken out of the picture replay badges could be used again to reset Marks of Valor which would be used to acquire PvP styles. Perhaps a different currency could be used for mixed mods- or the styles have the different currency. Regardless, whichever currency styles will be under they should have to be reset. Honestly, those are fantastic idea for monetization but we also have to consider our vision for PvP. Which is to be more competitive, split from PvE/Open World, and above all, give people who are willing to learn and practice the tools to do just that.
This is actually a good point. The only thing is the devs are determined to keep gear progression in PvP. Part of me likes it and another part of me really hates it.
We are pushing for a more competitive PvP. Therefore, we should hate it and push for no tiered mods/gear. That is how they will make PvP more competitive- as I detailed in my previous post and in my post on the Devs honestly what is your vision for pvp? thread. Our vision (the people's vision) and determination is required if we want to make Arenas and Legends PvP competitive. Open World should also be noted for later balance and perhaps competitiveness...
There really.isn't a way for them to make money from pvp. The only thing I can think of is selling new (good looking) pvp styles, new maps , and new modes( not too sure about modes though since it restricts people). I dont really know
New maps and modes as DLC/buyable content splits communities. We don't want to split the community further than Villains v.s. Heroes. This kind of idea is unfortunately typical due to the toxication of certain games' marketing philosophies and tactics. We need to get out of our tunnel visions and think like The Enquirer- that goes for me too. That would be kind of cool. Are you willing to expand on that idea?
They can sell PvP Amenities. Lockbox keys for PvP lockbox styles and lair items(Which would hopefully be updated with every new season of PvP to keep them fresh) Perhaps a "random" que...? As for selling new maps, perhaps do a sort of crowdfunding method.(Or perhaps revamp Map Rotation so there is only one of each kind of map open for free at any given time, and the rest cost money to unlock for those who don't want to wait for them to cycle into rotation. Kind of like legends to a degree...)
Well replay badges on non-mark related rewards would be a source of income. They definitely don't want to be doing another PvP DLC though. The last one just didn't end well for them. This is something I'm all for though I really don't know exactly know how they'd make money off of something like this.
Like I said, no locks on marks. That was stupid when they did it then and unless the whole gear unlocking structure changes drastically it'd be a stupid idea now too. Replay badges would reset non-mark related rewards.
I think you should condense your PVP Lockboxes and Reward Boxes down to one idea: PVP Reward Boxes: You would earn 1 each time you won if the map you win on is unlocked. Each map each week would start off unlocked like any PVE content. After that you can reset the map for 6 Replay Badges. These boxes would NOT lock you out from Marks. You would still get marks EVERY SINGLE TIME you win or lose. These boxes can include any of the following items: Most Desired/Super Rare: Exclusive PVP Styles - I'm not talking old school styles rehashed. I'm talking say 1 new style, 2 at the most, each Season would be added. These would be styles that are unobtainable via marks. They are a pure luck item to chase after (just like the PVE Lockbox Styles). Obviously these would be able to be traded and sold via Trading or the Broker. These styles would be 25 Feat Points. And because they are locked behind PVP and be rare they would more than likely fetch a pretty penny. The current Tier of PVP Gear/ Weapon - I'm not talking "YOUR Current Tier of PVP Gear" when the box drops...I'm talking "THE Current Tier of PVP Gear". Meaning if you are gearing up a Alt and you are resetting the maps you are winning on, and you get a PVP Reward Box with a piece of PVP Gear/Weapon in it, it will be the current Tier of PVP Gear that is obtained at the Top PVP CR. This piece of gear would be Unattuned and you can attune it once you reach the ability to purchase Top PVP CR Gear. When you unattune it, it will attune to what the current Top PVP CR was when the box dropped for you (no holding onto rewards for the next PVP season immediately getting pieces of gear you sneaky devils). Desirable/Rare: Extra Marks of Valor - The amount of marks that would drop would be dependent on your current PVP CR. Example, 97-98 CR = 25 Marks, 99 CR = 50 Marks, and 100 = 100 Marks. Base Items - Unique to PVP as in you can't get them anywhere else. Old PVP Styles - No Stats...Just styles. Some PVP'rs with Alts needing the old PVP Style Feats would love these to drop. I'm QQ'ing On The Forums Cause I Got That Again/Common: Extra Marks of Legend - Regardless of PVP CR this would be 2 Marks of Legend anytime it dropped. Base Items - Every day Base Items you can get anywhere. PVP Consumables - If they were to put Consumables back into PVP (and if you do SOE...please please please please make them only apply Power Interactions and cause no damage and no CC). Well there's my idea/rough draft written up on the spot to help monetize PVP .
Exactly. What I'm thinking of is reward boxes that have a chance to drop certain items such as the ones you listed among others. They could probably also slip some of the more rare vault drops in there as well (same drop rate of course). More or less so the rewards boxes we had previously, just excluding marks lock outs.
I like the idea, but I'm going to have to say no to this. I don't want DCUO to be a game where all the unlocks, extra loots, etc is based off of replay badges. Replay badges are also pretty expensive too. Oh and selling the 5k valor mods is a bad idea, tier1-4 pve players will have stronger stats than they usually should have. Not only that, but 1-2 dollar for a single mod is also a rip off. I like the amenities, as long as there is the 2 way to get them. The paying path and the collection path.
Giving us something more to spend these on would also be nice. Right now I've literally got no use for them. Ideally they could just toss a ton of the skin variants they already have in game such as the mist infused ones and sell those as well. Either sub up and pay with MoL or purchase from the MP for like 5 bucks each. EDIT: Actually you know what, maybe they could add something in wherein you could salvage some of the PvP rewards from lock boxes and turn it into more marks? Though in order for that to be useful we'd need to something to actively sink MoV into periodically.
Well keep in mind these reward boxes would reset after a certain amount of time (every other day maybe? Not sure about this one. Depends on the rewards). Ideally none of the prefab mods should have any effect on PvE gear. I actually don't know why they haven't done anything about that yet actually.
