Might DPS Master Thread - Rotations for Every Power and How to Build/Test Them

Discussion in 'Oracle’s Database (Guides)' started by AV, Feb 10, 2020.

  1. Pale Rage Well-Known Player

    Speaking of SA, I'm having issues with which artifact to level to replace it for aoe rotations.
    With Electric, I'm losing a whopping 18k dmg/s vs 8, and about 7k dmg/s vs 3. I've made up a portion of that damage with using shockwave in replace with 2 claps (which uses polarized). What do you think (I'm not asking you to hit the test, with all the work you're already doing, thx by the way! I hope the devs listen!)?
    Would grim Verum be better having polarized on to increase the shockwave damage having PI, or just go straight tetrahedron?

    My rotation is: Arc lightning, Tesla ball, electro genesis, electrocute, shockwave, Arc, Tesla ball, shockwave x2, repeat. (8 target).

    I kinda feel like the Tetra would be the ticket, buffing might for all powers, but grim also increase might, while applying polarized.
    • Like x 1
  2. AV Loyal Player

    Ha it'll bother me if I don't test XD I'll have a look. Freezing Breath generally becomes the AoE centerpiece for any power than can swing it though. Whatever we come up should outperform HV in most cases despite what the 8-target shows.

    The thing with elec is that arc lightning and tesla ball both suffer in the same way HV does and it wants to be able to use a damage field as well so it's not very bursty to begin with and depends on large, stationary pulls and depends on stuff not dying too fast, so the "wrath of god" build is really a paper tiger. I'll try to make something more practical that doesn't depends on large pulls.

    Edit: I just went through FGS and counted the number of mobs I hit every time with HV burst while league tank was doing super aggressive pulls and average was 5-6, with only a single instance of hitting 8 targets with all the adds around the skeleton ambush. I also lost a good number of bursts outright. I'm gonna try to move everything away from that no matter what because the real world performance isn't justifying it.

    I think PCe was the current tier when we made those too, which makes more sense since PCe has a massive number of clumped up adds.
    • Like x 1
  3. Pale Rage Well-Known Player

    I've got a couple different variations I use for 3 target (FGS for example), which is a bit more bursty:
    Arc, Tesla ball, Electrostatic bomb, Voltaic blast, then- (was heat vision, but working to get used to using shockwave here as well).
    This loadout has worked wonders at keeping me on top (or close if there's good melee ppl) with adds. (Which is why my curiosity is peaked on grim or Tetra).
  4. AV Loyal Player

    Are you open to short range build too or prefer full range?

    I love elec cuz it's always a bloody challenge XD 8-target be like "f yeah!" Then 3-target be like "=/"
  5. Pale Rage Well-Known Player

    I've tried a couple short range rotations, but they didn't seem to perform as well. With Electric, the only non electric power I used was HV (from leveling up SA to use on ST anyway), because it just went kinda fluently with the rotation. So I think after SA gets murdered, I'm likely gonna try to stick with full electric (and RSK) for trash clearing (and alert adds).
    But I'm open to suggestions, as there is always more to learn and implement.
  6. AV Loyal Player

    Yeh I don't expect melee to do any better than the last time I checked but I'll give it a try
  7. Pale Rage Well-Known Player

    Most of the closer range mid range powers also center around polarized. Setting up polarized has a decent hitter for that, but the bursts aren't as strong as say, Arc, Tesla blast, Voltaic blast. Arc and Voltaic are by far, from what I've seen, the best burst hits for 2-3 targets (even 4 is okay with Voltaic, but it drastically decreases at 5).
    Shockwave hits nice (with PI) on 3 targets as well, and it's fast.
  8. AV Loyal Player

    I'm super glad you asked about Elec cuz it's looking like, since Elec's entire schtick has always been doing atrocious damage on 3 targets and incredible damage on 8-targets while praying to average out somewhere in the middle and hoping adds last long enough that the DoT's get their licks in in, Elec ranged will be pretty much dead if the Solar Amp nerf goes through. Melee will be the only option by a margin of ~8-9% (before even considering the factors that'll cost the ranged options a lot of their damage) and it only needs 4 powers. I'd have to do more testing to narrow down melee's exact advantage but yeh... rip ranged elec if they nerf SA. I think this is the only power this will happen on cuz it was the same feast or famine style as Solar in that it was all in on stacking non-splits and hoping to hell it could hit enough targets to break even with other powers that didn't have the same limitation.

    Try this out please and let me know if you get the same results:

    Whirling Dervish (3-ticks)(Dashing Combo)(clipped with)>Arc Lightning>Voltaic Blast>Electrostatic Bomb>Repeat

    On test, I have this doing ~65-70 on 3 and ~90 on 8. vs the best ranged options hitting 89 on 8-targets and but only 50-55 on 3-targets (while their initial 10s parses were worse and they apply DoTs super late in a mob's lifespan so they'll essentially never actually get that performance in content). The maximum possible output is comparable on both but the melee build has a ~30-40% min lead, resulting in much better overall average performance and it even has less susceptibility to external factors (which is kinda ridiculous how finicky Elec's best ranged powers are).

    Ideal artifacts for this would be Trans, Strat, then likely Lernaea's Amulet (or Tetra if no one else can use a Tetra but we'd test with Tetra so we don't kill ourselves). I didn't test with Grim but I think Lernaea's will beat it since we get virtually no benefit at all from the PI (E Bomb's PI variance is slim to begin with) and this should be able to stack Offering fast enough to be a boon, even if we allow stacks to reset between mobs). Scrap may be viable since it would be difficult to tac swap but I've found being beefier is better and it's not too hard to keep stacks going (just a bit annoying). This would allow us to run CB or Megavolt.

    This still relies on Elec's trademark "more adds is better" philosophy and there's no way around that since not only is V Blast Elec's most important non-DoT, non-non-split AoE but it gains a lot from PI, so we're stuck with Arc Lightning. The difference between its 3 and 8 performance will average out to keep in it in line with other powers but it'll be somewhat dependent on content and tank (which elec always has been). Low mob count + timid tank + competitive co-\DPS and it'll be an uphill battle.

    If anyone else outside the conversation with more Elec experience wants to chime in that'd be welcome but so far this is the only competitive thing I can come up with if Solar Amplifier gets removed from the equation. Would be pretty lame to be so pigeonholed into a specific playstyle requiring a specific movement mode when no other power appears to require that if they move forward with the nerf.
    • Like x 2
  9. Pale Rage Well-Known Player

    I'll check that in a bit, and get back to you.

    On a side note, Celestial (at least my particular play style) is also gonna suffer from SA being slaughtered. It'll be roughly 25k drop (rng dependant) from what I was doing, by sticking with only celestial powers.
    Currently on sparring targets, with HV, I'm getting:
    8 targets = 100-105k/s
    3 targets = I have yet to finish the full average, 70k being highest.

    Without HV (celestial only) my highest parsers are at 78k/s.

    Loadout with HV:
    Plaque combo clip to Divine (no combo), HV, plaque combo clipped to power (wrath combo if close, wither combo if ranged), clipped to HV, repeat. (I have rsk in as well, but not using for testing parser of powers).

    So, using 4 powers for celestial (as wrath and wither are both on loadout, but only one used for rotation depending on range), HV is roughly 25% of my damage (right on target).

    Back to Electric: I'm keeping my fingers crossed they don't slam this artifact to the slaughter, but they likely will. If the artifact was never intended for any AOE purpose, that should've been communicated by them. Why the burst and dot spread if not for aoe? The higher the artifact goes, the more aoe capable it becomes.
    • Like x 1
  10. AV Loyal Player

    I'm sure it was intended for AOE purposes. Even grim fits into AOE builds. They severely undermine the value and marketability of an artifact when they make it a one trick pony.

    I'll have a look at celestial when I get a chance. Are you talking about that loss on 8 targets? Because, 3-target will go up and we should be able to get a higher overall average without it. My celestial leaguemates do exceptional celestial hallway DPS without it so I'm not too worried for it yet. But yeah... Hopefully it doesn't lose options like elec will if they cram this nonsense through.
    • Like x 1
  11. Pale Rage Well-Known Player

    Yes, the Celestial loadout has been against multiple targets (8 sparring).

    When it comes to 2-4 targets (hallways) I don't even bother with HV, plaque, Divine, wrath (or wither) generally handles these adds quite well.
    • Like x 1
  12. AV Loyal Player

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  13. AV Loyal Player

    I was a bit mistaken about Elec range. After working with Pale Rage we've got a ranged iteration that, despite being more behind the melee builds than I'd like, should basically never lose damage and should be at least viable:

    Arc Lightning > Voltaic Blast > Tesla Ball > Arc Lightning > Voltaic Blast > Freezing Breath (2 ticks)(tap cancel) > Repeat

    There is an almost negligible gap leading into Freezing Breath activation beyond the first one such that it's best to only press it the moment off cooldown and not before. Flow/speed is the same, just an annoying minor quirk. No dependence on 12s CDs, damage fields, projectiles, or mob-linked DoT auras. Freezing Breath can be extended for tac swaps a/r.

    Will be flushing AoE out more regardless of how the Solar Amp situation plays out but won't be making any changes to individual sections until it does.
    • Like x 1
  14. HarryMonk New Player

    Thanks for all the effort you put in to the thread, it's appreciated by many!
    Any tips for using lernaeas amulet with earth? Melee and single target
  15. AV Loyal Player

    Will have a look when I get a chance. I think Earth ST is efficient enough it shouldn't be too hard to make a non-finisher variant with enough damage that we can ride 10 stacks indefinitely. As for Jackhammer AOE we'll always be at the mercy of the healers but with a good healer I think it would be fine but only one way to find out with them.

    Edit: it is a lil st dependent though. Having more base health good a long way with it.
  16. HarryMonk New Player

    Thanks! I've only just started with the amulet, out of curiosity for melee more than anything!

    Of course if I can improve on my current setup by mainlining this for st then I'm all ears.

    not really sure how to test it effectively though as the artifact is doing what it does and.. ya know, killing me.
    • Like x 1
  17. AV Loyal Player

  18. AV Loyal Player

    We know we're getting +30% Might when we're holding max stacks. This only correlates to an ~7-10% DPS increase vs alternatives in practice though cuz 1. it's based on base might and 2. we only gain as much as the difference between it and w/e artifact we were replacing with it.

    Thanks to that knowledge we don't actually need a healer to help tell if a rotation will be viable, we just have to make sure the best All-In rotation we can come up with isn't too far behind the best rotation we have that uses a finisher. I should have Earth done this week but I'm guessing it'll just be a matter of comboing Upheaval a bit more to fill in the gap left by removing the finisher (and might be able to leave it on the bar still if desired). But yeh, as long as non-finisher rotation is close to finisher rotation, 10 stack Lernaea's will allow it to surpass finisher builds as long as the healers can sustain us with it.

    Also, when people are doing All-In rotations, there absolutely should be a Tetra in the group. The might granted by Tetra counts as base might, so the 30% Amulet bonus gets applied to it as well.
  19. AV Loyal Player

  20. AV Loyal Player