Might as well do this for pvp

Well, to be fair most of the community would be fine with them giving out 100's of feats, all renown, all styles, 3 200 level artis and 100 stabilizers...so I'm not sure that's a gauge. My question was for Scarlet or people like her (including Mepps) where if the only 2 options are 'cheating' or granting the feats...which is worse? I'd say the grant is worse. Some might think 'cheating' or trade wins. Until 'cheating' reaches the level of a glitch exploit or editing the game code to me at worst it's cheap or cheesy. Like using the meta power/arti/weapon combo or spamming EOG. It's all in the name of getting things done and as long as it doesn't break the above mentioned boundries, should be acceptable...even if it's not old school by the book.

It's like getting a degree from certain schools. Yeah some might look down their nose at it, but if it's within your monetary means, you did the work, you got the degree, it puts you in the same bracket as someone who graduates from an ivy league school if asked "did you graduate college?". 'Yes'....the answer is 'Yes I did'. Now...put to the test, will they be the same? Likely not...but some of those Ivy Leaguers also probably slid through to a C- Degree and might come up short when up against the "University of American Samoa" valedictorian.

I do agree that handing out the feats is by far worse and I do like the analogy. Was just trying to put it in the perspective of someone who looks down on cheating.

I would definitely love those few free feats but I guess it would be more satisfying just grinding it out and being able to have bragging rights that I finished all my pvp feats legitimately with a touch of win trading here and there.

Yea my take is cheating is much much worse than handing them out. You had to put effort in to the Happiness Home Glitch but it's still cheating, you don't get brownie points for group effort cheating imo. They should just eventually hand out the the feats.

Let's take a PVP player who has been playing the game for 8+ years. Seen all the threads specifically saying that win trading is cheating. It's just like that speed hacking thread currently up in gotham, once you know what speed hacking is, no excuses, leave the raid immediately or be complicit.

How can that player in good conscience join a win trade group? They can't, yet others whether through ignorance or just lack of care and thinking are able to cheat their way into obtaining the feats, Mr legit PvP feat getter over there loses out. Sitting in a queue that never pops, all while all the people who are cheating circumvent the system making it even less likely that this person will even get those feats legit.

Not saying they need to rush to do it, but eventually 8s feats should be granted. Or they should make it clear they no longer have a problem with win trading and not just ignoring it.

Final note, you bring up messing with Code, most of the PvE cheating which has been punished strongly doesn't have anything to do with messing with the code, clown box, blocking bosses and what have you, no different to whats going in in PvP imo, but apparently one is bannable on the spot and one is totally acceptable. The devs need to clarify once and for all

Ignore smh

That's where I was at. I had most of mine done. 8's are almost impossible to get into...so they are also done now, the only way available. Would I also have taken them as a giveaway? Sure...who wouldn't. I just don't like the message that sends either....if a feat is hard to get (well...next to impossible if the queues will never pop), we'll just give them out.

Yeah...I'm looking at you WV 100x bounty feats in mid 2022...we'll see your requests for giveaway soon enough too.

EDIT: Yes there are several of those feats I could flex 'bragging rights' on too as they were legit from back in the day when I PvPd. I'd just feel hypocritical doing so and wouldn't lie about the fact I got a handful from trades. I'm not trying to 'brag' about doing it...I'm not really that happy it was the only real option, however I'm happy they are done.

Both of those things were taking advantage of exploits, or glitches....both of which I referred to as actual cheating as well...not just breaking code. I totally agree on this point.

Also agree on this point, except that most of those people doing trade wins probably weren't going to pvp legit either. A few would have....15 of them at the same time? Doubtful. I chose not to be that poor unlucky soul waiting around on a queue that will not pop. I also chose not to come in here and beg for the feats to be given out.

It's fine we disagree. I actually respect your opinion....you've made some interesting points. Would I go back and swap the 5 or 6 hours I needed to finish up my 8's for 100+ hours just to get INTO the runs(win or lose)? No I would not.

The 'fix' is pretty simple. Make a reason to get people back into PvP (i.e. fix the system). Back when PvP was decent, getting in was not an issue and people would build a group to do legit runs...but again, they have said several times (probably more than the times they have said trades is cheating...if that tells you anything) that they have no plans for that.

We've also commandeered the thread, so I'm going to wrap it up on my part now.

Party on!

Fwiw even if I call it cheating and act all salty it’s more of a stance I’m taking than anything personal. I don’t actually hold any grudges against anyone and honestly i’m not even desperate for the feats. It’s more the principle, I’m never gonna make my own thread and complain about it but I’m happy to chime in when the subject arises.

By your logic. Feat hunting is a bannable offense.If I’m not going into content at the recommended level and not one shotting my way to a feat that at some point was hard to get. Would I technically be cheating? Now I do agree that win trading to get feats was looked down upon at one point and I may or may not have felt the exact same way. But if my only option was to do such a thing to get said feats done. I should just wait until the end of time before the Q ever pops? It sometimes takes 5-30 minutes just for 1s to Q. I’m pretty sure nobody is blind queing into 8s runs unless they are trading wins. Gotta get with the times. A 6 year old opinion when the gamemode was completely different than the state it’s in now is invalid. Why ban people from cheating a gamemode that they don’t even care about? What message does that send?

Now I do agree that Speedhackers should be banned no matter the gamemode, but win traders? No. They’re just getting a feat that’s impossible to attain legitimately.

Not really, my logic only relies on the fact that the devs have said they don't condone win trading, nothing to do with getting feats easy or whatever. Even if it was a long time ago, the point is that we as players don't get to arbitrarily decide when it's acceptable to do something they have said not to do. Anyway, as I said to Reinheld, you do you, my opinion is just that, you don't have to follow it.