Mepps.. Please remove relevancy windows

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by DC REBIRTH, Aug 2, 2017.

  1. willflynne 10000 Post Club

    To me it's not as much an issue with progressing fast, it's that as a result we'd probably see price increases again on vendors and other aspects of the game that use Marks as a result.

    Most of my active characters are at the point where they can run the solo content on New Genesis. If I'm not forgetting any pieces of daily solo content and Mark rewards remained as they are, if Mark relevancy were to be removed I'd be able to get about 46 Marks per day from solo stuff. Five days and I'd hit the cap. On top of that you've got umbrella missions (I think that was the term the devs used) like the Home Turf solo instances that open up after running the daily missions five times. Again, that's all just from solo missions; it doesn't include all the other content.

    Even if the "people are gearing too fast" horse is out of the barn, the devs have in mind a progression rate and are doing what they feel is necessary to stick to it. That means if there's an increase of Marks available, there's more than likely going to be an increase in costs for items/services that use Marks to maintain the intended progression rate.
    • Like x 1
  2. Roomba Dedicated Player

    There I was... in my mid 170s out damaging people in their 190s... yet I could only run half the T8 content with them.
  3. KHALONofOGUN 10000 Post Club

    Despite the wording in the On Duty menu, you can still continue to earn Ancient Coins well beyond the current relevancy window. What you won't get is full Marks of Victory from AF3 content (you will however have the option to pick a MoV from the loot window). :)
    • Like x 2
  4. Red Ringlight Dedicated Player

    Mepps, what some people have suggested that I really like is just have a time limitation on how often marks can be spent.

    As an example, a system I enjoy is Star Trek Online's "Reputation System". You can play any of their content as often as you like, but they limit how often you can spend your marks for each of their Reputations. You can spend marks on Daily projects and marks on Hourly projects -- and each slowly builds your Reputation with that games' various factions. At the completion of each project you get a small RNG reward, and each Reputation also has 5 Tiers. Each time that you complete a Tier you unlock a new stat boost of some sort or a new ability -- these vary with the different faction Reputations available. And once you've completed a factions' Reputation tiers, THEN you can work on time-gated projects to build special sets of equipment with your marks. The different Reputation sets offer different sorts of things for different types of builds. In terms of their game, one Reputation's set might offer a percent chance with each attack to trigger a self-heal, another Reputation set might have a chance at a DoT, another might offer a chance at a stun / immobilization of a foe, and so on.

    The main thing that I like is that you have the entire content of the game open to play as often as you like, and you get marks for everything -- the gating is simply done with how often and how many marks you can spend on the various projects. The projects also time-gate themselves by requiring some rare materials to build some items in the sets -- these either are acquired through extremely rare RNG wins or for the unlucky you can spend a LARGE amount of marks and buy them on Daily projects. Once you have enough of these rare materials, you can then do a project using them and some more marks on a Daily project and build another set item.

    The way that they have it set up, you can spend months and months completing one Reputations' set projects. But the really nice thing is that you can play whatever content you enjoy as often as you like and you'll get marks that you can eventually spend to get beneficial stuff. And after you have completely finished every possible project for a Reputation, you can still continue playing it and do projects that reward you with large amounts of one of the games' ingame currencies. Another project that can be done when you've completed a Reputation is one that gives a token that you can give to one of your alts that will allow the alt to progress through that Reputation at twice the speed of someone without the token.

    It opens the game up, giving players much more variety and helping prevent boredom, and it also incentivizes frequent play. People will log in to at least complete projects and spend more marks on the next project.
    • Like x 1
  5. Doctor Nova Devoted Player

    If they limit how often a user can spend marks (i like that system), have that apply to gear up to 5 CR below and all above your current CR. Being able to buy many items with marks that are style feats of gear below your CR seems silly. Well, maybe these days, with relevancy window, you can't earn and store many marks in the current content loot and mark cooldown system?

    ps, the signature box does not expand when you make the browser window wider. o_O

    I see interesting posts lately about CR differential being removed.... an aspect of the change. :p I wonder if a patch is in the works or is this the balance for the rest of the game? It's been changed... how many times so far? Add CR differential, add WM, add AM, ....? role optional alerts, they're still in play, right?
    • Like x 1
  6. SparkmanX Committed Player

    I understand how to keep track of how many marks one can afford per day. However, I think it is necessary to focus on which target is directed the possibility of gaining extra marks playing old content.

    With the recent promotion of several players with the option to jump to CR 100 and several players like me who have returned after many years thanks to revamp, we find ourselves playing the end game but without having managed to complete many of the styles of the past episodes . Styles that as we know are linked to feats.

    This group of players would be willing to play old content to earn extra marks and buy those styles that are missing since we had to level up very fast.

    Added to this need, we find the situation that the cost to modify the gear are quite expensive and the plans are even more expensive in terms of marks. Therefore, we are not enough with the marks obtained in the current content to be able to buy what we need for our gear plus the old styles that we need to complete.

    Benefits of opening the window relevance

    1- the queue to enter the instances would be faster because of the number of players who enter the old instances.

    2- New players would have the opportunity to play with more experienced players in these instances.

    3- The players that we climb of level very fast will have the opportunity to play these instances as it is supposed that they must be played and therefore to enjoy these contents as it should be thanks to this revamp.

    In addition to this, it would be good to incorporate new styles into the style vendor to motivate more players to look for the necessary marks and buy them
  7. xsamhellx Level 30

    I know a few people who are stuck at T1 because nobody is doing the T1 raids. I myself was stuck til I broke down and bought all the iconics off broker to boost my cr to T3 content. Alot of league mates also don't want to help the fresh 30's out because they don't want to spend 30 to 45 minutes doing a T1 raid.

    Once I hit T3 it got better but T1 is pretty stale at the moment. Most of us work second shift or third shift jobs and can't play during peak hours. On one of my alts it took three days til I completed 1 T1 raid and that was only because a bunch of people who bought the cr100 skip needed sp and ran it for the feats.
    • Like x 1
  8. xsamhellx Level 30

    I know a few people who are stuck at T1 because nobody is doing the T1 raids. I myself was stuck til I broke down and bought all the iconics off broker to boost my cr to T3 content. Alot of league mates also don't want to help the fresh 30's out because they don't want to spend 30 to 45 minutes doing a T1 raid.

    Once I hit T3 it got better but T1 is pretty stale at the moment. Most of us work second shift or third shift jobs and can't play during peak hours. On one of my alts it took three days til I completed 1 T1 raid and that was only because a bunch of people who bought the cr100 skip needed sp and ran it for the feats.
  9. KHALONofOGUN 10000 Post Club

    The cr rat race is not the only form of progression in this game. There's still the matter of skillpoints gained from vendor gear and rare styles from content and the rare style vendor, and at the high end there's R&D materials and plans (Generator plans, Essence Purifiers, Mod Removal Kits). All of these things play a part in making our toons stronger. You can't advocate for the release of more marks as if it's a trivial thing because then you're saying the marks don't have much value...which we know to be false.
    • Like x 1
  10. matth431 Level 30

    Alternate suggestion to increasing marks - decrease the MoV cost of buying styles you've passed the relevancy for, say 2-5 MoV per piece.
    • Like x 1
  11. willflynne 10000 Post Club

    Okay, as harsh as it may be to say this, If players are jumping to 100 or simply rushing to end game and leaving styles and feat points behind in the process, that's on them. They made that choice and need to own it.

    Players have plenty of control over the pace of their own progression, even with some areas in the early tiers where loot drops will push you forward without trying. There are at least three to four spots I can think of where you can effectively camp out and spend your time earning Marks (the fourth spot kind of overlaps with the third spot, so it can be a judgement call on the actual number lol), which is exactly what I've been doing on characters to get style feats from the Rare Style vendor.

    To me, complaining about missing the style feats by rushing to endgame or jumping to 100 would be like me trying to complain about not having all the raid/alert feats when I stick to solo content. It'd be silly for me to complain about that because I made the choice to not run that content.
    • Like x 2
  12. SparkmanX Committed Player

    Do not worry, your argument is not harsh, you just made it clear that you did not understand anything I said. Maybe I still do not speak English well and that has become a linguistic barrier.

    The reason you have not understood is because you think my writing is a "complain", which is not true; Rather it is an opportunity. I suggest you read my writing again, especially the endpoints

    As I explained in detail, there are a large number of players with a need, my proposal is a ladder that would not only help these players, it would also benefit the community at large.

    Finally, the theme of each one controlling the time of their progress, let me tell you that there are long, but very long ... very long threat on this topic in the forum. I suggest you check it out. For me, this is raining on wet.

    I can not speak for the other players, but I can speak for myself. After two years of absence, at first I wanted to play all the episodes properly, but I came across two problems that led me to conclude that the real game in DCUO is in the end game.

    1. Many missions need a group of people, I mean bounties and raids, however it is very difficult to find players who want to do these old missions and the only ones we found were players so strong that they killed the bosses of a Simple shot. Of course, you have won the marks, but you have not played as it should be

    2. The difficulty of playing properly a role (tank) because the players who entered these instances were a bunch of inexperienced dps who refused to play some supporting role, on the other hand you had players who were so strong that they killed everything in their path. The raids and some alert became extremely tedious since every week had to explain in English by chat to all players as the instances were made. The players who really know how to play are in the end game

    The proof of them, is that currently in AoJ I have not had difficulty to pass any instance, since the LFG is full of players who know what it does, therefore running those instances becomes more smooth than playing the old instances.

    As I said before, this topic has been talked about a lot in this forum. What for you is an irresponsible decision, for me was the most prudent decision in order to play and enjoy it this game as it should be.

    It seems to me that the only rushing person, it is you, that you have not stopped to assimilate what I tried to explain to mepps. I hope this has clarified my position on the subject, but above all, make it clear that opening the window of relevance in terms of marks and content is really an opportunity for everyone in the long run.

    This is not a complaint, this is an opportunity to turn the old instances into a pleasant and entertaining experience such as the end game
  13. SocratesGS Well-Known Player

    I have a question about this. Why do you need to meter the amount of marks a person can earn when there is a cap to what they can have at any given time. Combined that with the amount of time it takes to run content now and the CR requirement at the vendors means that a low level person won't be able to skip tiers via MoV. It seems excessive to keep the relevancy in place now unless you are intentionally creating grind in the game for the sake of grinding alone.
    • Like x 1
  14. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    The time thing is a fine idea, but one I suspect wouldn't really solve the problem for you. I think you'd be back here requesting the time limiter to be raised, or you'd be back here upset that you didn't get any marks out of end-game content after you ran a bunch of old stuff. And we'd still have the problem where someone could fully level from level 30 to AFIII by playing, if they chose, the very first T1 raid and nothing else.

    Like I said before, it's a big thing and one that we may look to tackle holistically in the future, especially as the most recent currency/vendor/end-game system has a little more time to prove itself.
    • Like x 1
  15. Jafin 10000 Post Club

    How about having two levels of relevancy, with the second one kicking in once you get to the CR required for AFIII? For example a T2 instance would read: "Combat Relevancy: CR43-64, 166+"

    That could work as a short term solution until you guys work out something more long term down the line.

    P.S. Sorry if this was mentioned already in the thread, I haven't read all the posts.
    • Like x 1
  16. TechWarrior0329 Steadfast Player

    Okay here's another idea... Forget about marks. If a CR 200 is down doing a T2 raid to grab some feat(s) missed on the way up.. Marks are not a real concern anymore.... He gets more of those than he needs just running the daily Solos in the War Torn zones.

    How about that lower tier content starts dropping some ancient coins or War Bonds.... Now I'm not say as many as the marks that would drop for a player at the appropriate CR but may 2 coins or 2 war bods for an alert and say 4 or 5 for a raid? If you feel it needs to be lower fine.. But honestly I have Alts in the 190s and the only thing I am doing with Marks is renting utility belt slots and renewing the Tier 3 status on my lair powers (orbital strike, supply drop, Back up and tactical mods) but all that combined only required 38 marks every 60 days.
  17. xXHeadlinerXx Dedicated Player

    I'm not quite sure what point you are making. As far as progression, the content is still locked behind cr progression. You can get skill points until you are blue in the face, but you have to get your CR to get into the higher content. And the stuff you get in the higher content pretty much makes all of the stuff you got in the lower content irrelevant. So while how good your character is no longer depends on CR, what content and rewards you can get with your character is still based on CR, so from the content and rewards perspective, for a new player getting their CR to Age of Justice (CR 186 I think it is? Or is it 188?) first would still be my recommendation, and once you are there, you can worry about maxing your skill points. That would be my advice to a new player with the caveat that they should try to find an active league if possible for learning purposes and so they don't have to listen to Captain Skill Points tell them that anyone with less than 325 skill points is trash and doesn't belong in his reg raid run.

    To the extent you think CR relevancy is intended to be a limiter on pre-endgame progression I don't think it is effective because you can move to the next CR tier by running relevant content once and then supplementing if necessary any pieces that lag CR from the broker. Just pick head, chest, back, and accessories first on loot screens since hands, feet, belt, shoulders, and leg boxes are cheap on the broker (typically under $500K with belt and hands typically under $100K). You can make that money by selling stuff on the broker, although I do recognize that new players probably don't know what the rare drops from old content are yet, so there the best advice I can offer is to pick the base item and hope for the best if the gear is duplicative of stuff you already have. Anyway, doing that should make needing marks for gear to advance the exception rather than the rule. Someone called it cheesy, but it's in the game and I would counter that using readily available progression options is smart and that sitting around T5 for a week waiting for reset because you didn't get the drops you need to move up is a waste of time. And it does require running content so I'm not sure why it is so cheesy.

    Regardless, though, for a new player, I agree marks are important, but once they have endgame CR I'm unclear why they need to be limited since grinding skill points from marks takes quite a while, and in any event I don't see the benefit in encouraging people grinding skill points to not run old content. Before GU43 old queues popped a lot faster, and it was pretty nice if you ask me. If an endgamer want to grind old content for marks now that the old content isn't a faceroll I don't see the benefits in discouraging them from running it, to be honest.
  18. xXHeadlinerXx Dedicated Player

    Not having old content drop currency used for endgame vendor gear was pretty much the point of ditching the single mark system. What you described was effectively the pre-AF3 game from the time the introduced the extra out-of-relevancy drops in old content onward. I mean, if your opinion is that we should go back to that, that's fine, I'm just saying that is pretty much the world that existed for the year or two prior to AF3.
  19. willflynne 10000 Post Club

    You know, it's the funniest thing. All those old instances that have Marks removed from them due to moving out of relevancy?

    Marks were the only things removed from them.

    The content itself is exactly the same as it was (minus whatever balance tweaks were done/still need to be done for the revamp) when you could run it and get Marks as part of the rewards. You still have all the fights and opponents in place, all the mechanics, even all the loot drop possibilities.

    Everything is in place for players to have a pleasant and entertaining experience running older content. If they claim they need Marks for that, it's going to make me question whether they're actually playing for a fun experience or if they're just in it for a payout. Having a payout is nice, I won't deny that, but in my own experience it's far from a necessity to have fun.
    • Like x 1
  20. TechWarrior0329 Steadfast Player

    I am well aware of why most game content went irrelevant but we now have a fairly sizable group complaining about how now older content takes much longer to complete.. since they can't just blast through it in a couple minutes... So maybe a number of those complaints would vanish if the reward for being down there was a little better? Now like i said i do not think they should be rewarding a CR 199 that runs a Khandaq raid 10 War Bonds but that player will be much more content in he completes the raid and get say 3 or 4? War Bonds instead of an Alternate reward box that may or may not contain anything he can even use.

    To explain that last part.. 100 Prestige tokens sounds like a nice little reward but if the player that just had that handed to him as a reward for defeating Black Adam on Khandaq is NOT in a league.. The thing is useless and basically the guy leaves the raid feeling like he just spent 15 -say 30 minutes battling and got no reward at all

    Tokens of Merit... Now these start out great. I personally have completed every single feat associated with them just from opening Alt reward boxes.. And there are a lot of feats you can get from them BUT once you have acquired 30,000 of them, the feats stop. At that point any more you get are once again like really getting no reward at all.

    That leaves the Omega Compound and the Exobit Clusters that are and always will be viable reward.

    Now I figure the odds of them actually ever giving us a war bond for completing something like FOS are slim to none but maybe they could think of some OTHER Reward that would make everyone happier.?
    • Like x 1