Melee balance 2.0

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Mighty, Jul 11, 2016.

  1. Mighty Committed Player

    Hey, I know I missed much of the mid-range balance discussions this past year, because frankly I wasn't going to hang out and wait a year for my favorite power to get fixed (apologies to nature and elec). I also know Tunso is gone, and personally I think that may be a good thing for balance and DBG-player relations going forward, because trying to get through to Tunso was like tunneling through concrete with a spork.

    I know that weapons, DOTs and pets are getting a pass next, and power balance, per Mepps, is an ongoing concern. I would just like the developers in charge of balance to consider going forward that the issues raised a year ago with having some powers that get "melee" damage only at point blank (rage, HL), and having some powers get "melee" damage at seven meters-plus (~23 feet), have not been addressed. The 7m distinction still allows all non-rage/HL powers with a melee AM to tap into a higher level of damage with relative safety. Meanwhile DPSing at point blank range as rage or light, with no damage mitigation (HL can't even pop light barrier without breaking the AM), will get your toon killed by many bosses' splash AOE attacks in raids/SM.

    So here we are, a year after raising enough player feedback to urge development into reassessing the range/mid-range/melee dichotomy, a year's worth of balance passes later, two-plus years removed from GU36, and still there are clear winners and losers in DCUO's grand power rebalancing roulette game. Moreover, the problem that spurred the last year's worth of balance updates - you can't have one power get melee at just point blank and another get melee at 12.5 meters - was never addressed. Instead, development received feedback for HL and Rage regarding the imbalance of a 0m melee and proceeded anyway.

    I urge the development team to consider the point blank to 7m dichotomy for "melee" damage when conducting passes for Elec, Nature, Sorc and Earth, and I hope that Rage and HL can get a good faith look from the developers as to the equities of requiring them to melee at point blank, while allowing other powers to melee from seven meters out. I don't understand how this was discounted by Tunso - if it was stubbornness or mechanical limitations - but there are ways (mitigation, buffing of ranged combos at 0-7m) that balance can be achieved for HL and Rage.

    PS. I'm excited about the game's development going forward, about a dozen-or-so of us in the league came back to the game full-time this past week.
    • Like x 8
  2. YinChakra Dedicated Player

    Yes, please adjust Rage DPS.
    • Like x 2
  3. Backseid Devoted Player

    Just in time for months without content. Lol ;)
    • Like x 2
  4. Mighty Committed Player

    Hopefully not trying to develop new instances for every month will free up the time needed to give the issue a thoughtful response.

    Personally, I'm all for the return to the old 3-month DLC structure. I also think, to be fair, you can't say there's no content to run in that span. There's LPVE, a new PVP season and a couple survival modes in that span.
    • Like x 1
  5. Backseid Devoted Player

    Ah yes, the three LEAST run instances. Lol

    I'm all for the change as well. Monthly killed off every member of my league. So maybe...

    But I cannot help thinking this should have been planned out a bit better. Have some sort of plan before just going completely off for several months.

    But whatever. Most will just take time off. Hell, I'm still subbed, and I may log on once every two weeks.

    If they do this right, and bring back open world content as well as finally get that we desperately need Solo content, we may see the population start to rise again. Just cannot survive on Group only content.
    • Like x 4
  6. The Anxient Loyal Player

    Yeah let's burn up another year or more to create super duper melee range... No more power balancing. At least let support roles have their updates before we go 5 more years down the dps rabbit hole.
    • Like x 7
  7. pitbullb3 Devoted Player

    Not enough to pay for, all those things you mentioned, as of right now are free to play. And players like me who see sm as a waste of time, and not doing lpve until there are more maps connected to feats, it really is 5 months at the least with no content
    • Like x 4
  8. Backseid Devoted Player

    Hell, I'd argue that theres no content now. One single instance, at any given time, is not worth my time.

    We can thank that great idea of Content Relevancy here.

    I said it over n over again that a single Mark system was impossible to do AND keep all costs/Payouts the same. And honestly, I don't think I expected it to be as bad as it is.
    • Like x 4
  9. HymnOfMercy Dedicated Player

    Never thought you'd be back.
    I had given up haven't logged in much since. Only did some PvP here and there..
    tested the content but that's all.
    that and life been unkind lately.
    Though since the announcement Ill be coming back.

    I agree with much of what you said. This is almost just an echo of things that were said vehemently in the rage and HL midrange passes. In my opinion it may have been just Tunso's stubbornness. He was notably hard to get through, despite being a cool guy and a good dev. In past times it took clutch to show him that Steel was overpowered at an SOE live.
    All shade is intended too. That kind of stubbornness is a precursor to stagnation, which in this case was bad.

    Good to see you again.
    -Prophetic Warrior
    • Like x 2
  10. ozzy1111 Dedicated Player

    balancing and fixing are something that will NEVER happen. when will you ppl understand this??? lol its a scam to get the fotm ppl to buy the respect tokens...the one and only reason we have always had and always will have the endless nerf and buff of powere and weapons...and when all they think about is how to scam $$$ out of us, we end up with this game! think of long term quality game play and you will make $$$ easy enough.
  11. Mighty Committed Player

    Or just fix HL and Rage and not require them to be at point-blank range, instead tuning their ranged combos that already get mid-ranged damage at 12.5 meters to get melee damage at 7m. This was literally the exact same problem from a year ago. If you don't give all powers the same melee range then what the hell was the past year of balancing for?
    • Like x 3
  12. Mighty Committed Player

    Back at you, bud.
    • Like x 1
  13. light FX Steadfast Player

    What has any of it been for? Every time theres been a "balance" pass and they finish it there is a few powers outta whack and a new balance pass has to be done. So the cycle gets started again. From what i see is its been 2.5 yrs of trying to fix and balance powers and its not even finished. Powers are not balanced. Because they never will be. No offense to u and your ideas but i am sick to death of this whole never ending power balance stuff. Gu50 was a year ago and we still dont know when nature/electric will even get their midrange done. After ep26 im taking a break until AF3. And if they start another round of dps updates after or round that im instantly leaving the game. Just cant deal with it anymore.
    • Like x 3
  14. AceTheDazed Well-Known Player

    hey whats up mighty,i definitely agree with the points made here. i would really like to see l and rage come back into relevency when it comes to dps. -- this is Ace btw glad to see you back on forums
    • Like x 1
  15. Mighty Committed Player

    To be clear, I share your frustration. I was one of the people who argued this exact same point two-plus years ago leading up to GU36. Those arguments lost out, however, so if we're going to get the powers to some semblance of balance, then why not do it correctly? Denying rage and HL "melee" capabilities at 7 meters, unlike every other power that has a melee AM pass, is just kicking the can down the road. When nature and elec get their pass - and I feel for my friends who count those as their favorite powers - I hope that they don't get shafted the same way light and rage were. And then, after elec and nature get a melee pass, I hope the developers revisit rage and HL and tune dreadful blast and the fan combo to do melee damage at 7m. Neither of those fixes for those two powers seem altogether difficult, and the rationale for excluding those fixes, without in turn granting increased survivability to light and rage at 0m melee range, is nonsensical.

    I'm ready for the DPS balance to be done just as much as the next guy, but I want it done right.
    • Like x 1
  16. light FX Steadfast Player

    I agree it should be done correctly. And by all means share your thoughts and suggestions and what u think can help. Not against that at all. Its just after 2.5 years or longer i have no faith it will be done correctly. But who knows, maybe 1 day soon it does happen the right way.
  17. Mighty Committed Player

    You don't get what you don't ask for, right?
    • Like x 2
  18. Jacob Dragonhunter Steadfast Player

    I support this idea.

    Yes some users can survive while meleeing. But that still doesn't justify the need for you to risk dying while other powersets can be relatively safe.

    I'm hoping they don't pull this 0M nonsense with the Compound powersets.
    • Like x 1
  19. Scrub Well-Known Player

    We all understand it. We just want better. If youre willing to just accept it then please keep buying power tokens
    • Like x 1
  20. Twelve Gauge Committed Player

    I'd love to see the distance modifiers gone entirely, it was an unnecessary and ultimately useless endeavor, and give us some semblance of 'player choice' back. It's bad enough we're stuck with ams, i could do without being told where to stand as well.
    • Like x 1