Meaningful Grind vs Just a Grind

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Cold Fusion, Jun 5, 2017.

  1. Cold Fusion Well-Known Player

    This is not a new problem.. but it has hit rock bottom IMO.

    The point of gearing up was to be more powerful so you can overcome challenges and foes that were very difficult and in some cases close to impossible before gearing up to a decent level.

    Now we gear up just for the # by your name. This is why this game is not very fun anymore and why people are bored.

    Episode 29

    Outside day 1...
    191 Earth Dps 1 shots adds and takes on 10 for fun but they can't kill him..lol
    188 mental 1-2 shots adds
    189 Nature kills them in 1 dot set up.. ya Nature

    Alerts day 1. - 3 dps 1 heal all 188 to 191 no threat of dying let alone wiping. Why is this set up even a possibility day 1?

    Raids day 2. Didn't run them day 1 because of my time restraint.
    All 188 to 191 for both raids with zero problem. We felt like we were playing a reskin Oly or GoM.

    Grinding 3 months or 6 months just for the sake of grinding is not fun.

    Long ago in a land far far away we would run solo and duo content that felt like a mild to medium challenge level and Alerts with medium challenge level and used all the roles to gear up a little...
    After that we had a chance to beat a raid with a hard challenge level but it would be a struggle with multiple wipes and usually only the first boss of the raid the first week if it was a good raid you would make it to last boss of some DLC's.

    We actually needed to use roles for more than just the in raids... Poor trolls and tanks get no love anymore.

    That was a game a actual game with a reason to gear up and mod and used a mic to communicate to improve odds of success.

    The # by my name is not a good enough reason and the Elite content is a tiny piece of content that unlocks twice a month.

    Survival mode is the only thing to really gear up for and that's only available here and there.

    I love what the game was...

    Stat revamp is coming eventually... I can only hope fixing this is part of the plan as well... Probably not though...
    • Like x 15
  2. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    We're gearing up for the next episode, that's the way I see it. I bet doing the content in that episode in AF3/Starro gear would be rather tricky.
    • Like x 2
  3. Please Stop Me Well-Known Player

    One shoting ads? Must be a bad mo fo.
    • Like x 1
  4. Cold Fusion Well-Known Player

    188- 202 CR is AMF3 / Starro gear.
  5. light FX Steadfast Player

    Im not sure how it can be said we are gearing up for the next episode. Not when an event will be next, where we are all clamped, and we will all get gear that drops in that event that will put us well over the minimum for the next episode that is a long way off. U could of skipped AF3 and ran the starro event and got to 188.

    I did this on my HL toon. That toon has run the hades duo one time, thats all the AF3 content that toon has ever run. And it was a few days ago. That toon doesnt own a single piece of gear from AF3 or the amazon TC or qwardian TC. That toon was 150 when AF3 started. Its not a toon i play often and i would do some monthly content here n there. When starro started the toon was 161. When it ended the toon was 187. I could run the free war torn area for a month and get some more gear. Or buy some TC gear off the broker and get to 194-196 if i wanted too. If i chose the TC route the toon could be 196 w/out ever stepping foot in AF3 or AoJ. Gearing for the next episode? :rolleyes: Please.

    We are grinding just to grind. And if things continue this way u dont even need to play the episodes at all. Hopefully a change is coming down the road. Btw on day 2 of AoJ i had done both alerts in 9 mins. And 1 of the raids in 14 mins. As of today i have all alert feats done and im missing 1 normal raid feat. In 4 days. Playing all the episodes and events to have all the gear just makes the new content very easy on day 1 and it only gets easier from there as u gear up.
    • Like x 5
  6. Please Stop Me Well-Known Player


    Exactly what I did. I had no clue what AF3 was until I was already at 188. Starro was my life blood as it kicked off right around my first week or so of playing actively. It carried me the majority of the way from 50 CR or so to 188 CR.
  7. Please Stop Me Well-Known Player

    In response to the OP though. I guess that is what alts are for. I haven't played long enough to be full on bored as there seems to always be something that I am chasing. Since hitting 198 CR I have been just stacking up War Bonds and ancient coins. Trying to maintain the "1 feat a day" regimen I started since locating the feats menu. On the side of working on finishing off the whole gear ordeal there is the feats grind, and of course scrapping gear for materials to craft gen mods and gear mods. I get your point though. It sucks to think of what this game will be for me once I have been around a year.
  8. BumblingB I got better.

    Part of it comes from how they are trying to get new players up to the end content. As you said, the Starro event, you could get to 188 and it was a free event. This is what they were doing. Jackster mentioned that population is necessary and new players are what the free events are about. So why not?

    This new DLC's grind wouldn't be so bad if we had additional forms of progression other than gear. That is further pushed by the fact that CR is STILL king. Until stats matter comes around, gear is our grind and the content is replayed in nauseam.

    Sometimes I feel that they need to increase the level cap. SP progression can only go so far, even post stats matter.
    • Like x 3
  9. light FX Steadfast Player

    I dont disagree. But again my point is ya dont really need the episode gear for the next episode. At least since monthly content stopped ya dont. Like i said hoping a change is coming.
  10. BestPlayerAfrica Well-Known Player

    You make raid harder → more wipe fiesta → more frustration → customers are gonna leave! → less money
    Its not about giving ppl like you a hard game with challenge its all about a marketing POV
    In fact nobody give a sh*t about your "hard content" demand most of ppl that are actually playing this game are casual!
    You dont pay for daily wipe attempt! You pay for ads "one shot" as you said! Its all about make the customer feel like his money was worth!

    Stats revamp sure gonna make things harder since no more 1 2 3 4 rotation and oh?! the mob died? cool ...great crit numbers btw xd ... not rly that much harder if every1 switch to rage tho ...
  11. Torikumu 10000 Post Club

    I agree.

    We've finally got the distribution of the best rewards sorted. No longer do we depend on a lottery system to decide whether we are worthy of an upgrade or not. No longer are we at the mercy of a system which benefits those willing to pay to replay it. Unfortunately, the issue of not having a reason to want to upgrade your gear still exists.

    This issue isn't a new issue, by any means. The last time I recall it being necessary and important to upgrade your gear was in Episode 7, back in 2013. You couldn't take your T4 gear into Nexus/Paradox Wave and expect to beat it. I'm sure someone probably did, but for the vast majority, including the majority of the hardcore end-game crowd, those raids required a bit of time and commitment to beat. Upgrading your gear has become a luxury that makes the content faster to beat.

    Since then, we haven't really seen anything like that. The closest thing we've seen is "Elite" content. But Elite content isn't user-friendly by any stretch and has had a ton of issues right from the start.

    I'd like to see more done in the future to appeal to those who want more from the game. By all means, keep aspects of new content casual. Welcome in Level 10's to certain aspects of the episode. Produce a couple of instances for those who aren't ready for or able to beat a tough piece of content on par with the difficulty level being produced now. But give the rest of us something meaty to sink our teeth into. Something we can't beat on Day 1 or without a full set of vendor gear. Something original, rather than a rehash of an instance we've already beat, with tougher NPCs and more mechanics.

    Commit at least 1 Raid and/or alert to being substantially more difficult than the other and not necessarily just a Paradox Wave/Lockdown/Throne of the Dead style arena wave battle too. Something with substance and a storyline with more than just 3 bosses. Something worthy of concluding the episode and it's storyline. Give us that "main event" to justify spending weeks earning the best gear.

    Oh and don't just look to challenge the 8 player groups either. Challenging 4-player/2-player/1-player content would be nice, too.
    • Like x 5
  12. Cold Fusion Well-Known Player

    It's not about having hard content you can't pass ever.. it's about giving a player a reason to grind and gear up.. the feeling of progress.

    If people really don't care then just get rid of stats and gear and make everyone level 30.. Just drop styles and make this a dress up game..
    • Like x 2
  13. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    I'm going to have to disagree with you on that. The content composition we have right now is fine, except for the fact that you have to jump though hoops to play elite. They should just bin progress points so people can choose which version to play. I hated having to miss out on key plot points back in the day, like the plot twist at the end of Throne to give an example.
  14. Elusian Crowd Control

    Elite also got watered down a lot.

    AF3 was anything but hard. The biggest problem for some was GOMe but OLYe felt like a normal raid. I can't even remember when people started to beat it regulary but the early birds done it the 1st or 2nd day.

    AoJ has the same issue. JFAe beaten before weekend and USe idk when that happened. Might be just the USe feat that can be slightly called "hard" or "elite" but that will solve itself just with CR and less with the factor skill imo.

    Everything watered down even that what was suppose to be for the ppl who kept crying for a challenge and that all in favor for more replay sales.

    But just to add, CR Scaling is also a thing to shame for cause that turns something solid at entrance into a loot pinata at closer to max cr.
    • Like x 2
  15. Torikumu 10000 Post Club


    I disagree. The composition is a problem. I hate the idea of Elite content being the only way to satisfy the players who actually want some depth to their experiences in DCUO. It's not a good solution to the overall problem. There's no satisfaction in playing Elite content, because it doesn't offer us anything new to experience. In most cases, it's just a more frustrating version of an instance we nuked whilst trying to gain access to it in the first place. Give me a new map, with new bosses to face, in new areas that I won't see until I progress through the raid.

    In the mean time, binning progress points would definitely help. I guarantee that on Thursday, when I'm unlocked and ready to run the raids again that there will be an issue somewhere, which prevents me from running the Elite content with my friends/league mates. Either the progress point will have reset, or somebody in my group will not have a progress point at hand, preventing us all from trying and becoming loot locked in the process of getting everyone eligible. It's a good idea based on what we have today, but the overall goal needs to shift to producing some content that actually requires effort to beat and isn't an optional aside.
    • Like x 1
  16. Torikumu 10000 Post Club


    That's just sad :(

    I definitely agree that CR differential is a problem. I ran the Eclipso alert on one of my alts with some friends who also had low CRs (I think 189 was the max in our group) and the difference between that run and one on my main, with people CR190+ was astounding. CR differential definitely isn't helping here. At all.

    I think this issue as a whole is something that should be looked at and discussed further when the stats revamp has been finalised and made live.
  17. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    Many games have difficulty settings though, because not everyone who plays video games can be good at them. This goes double in an mmo where social interaction is necessary. Some people don't have great social skills or coordination and won't improve due to disabilities. Why should they be locked out of some of the story in the content they paid for?
  18. Torikumu 10000 Post Club


    They aren't locked out. They're allowed to play the content. They can try the content. They can get destroyed by the content. They can then re-evaluate, improve their character and try again until they beat it, enjoying the sweet satisfaction that comes with overcoming something challenging.

    If that's not to their liking, they can try the content which hasn't been tuned to challenge the players who are taking the time to progress through the episode.

    Nobody should be just entitled to beat any content, ever, for whatever reason. Especially not when catering to players like that destroys the integrity of the game for the rest of the population.

    A much healthier position for a game is to have content which certain people "can't" beat and a more dedicated audience struggle to beat, than a game which has content that all players can beat, with nothing to keep the dedicated audience interested.
    • Like x 4
  19. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    But that's why we have elite as a compromise. Problem is that elite has consistently failed to deliver. That's the issue. Even survival is a shadow of it's former self. That should be the challenging content that delivers what you describe. Even with the normal content we have now, no-one is "entitled" to beat anything. My lfg run of Ultimate Soldier last friday would have ended in a disband if the last boss didn't glitch out of the bubble. 2 hours we were in there.
  20. Sixfiguredice Well-Known Player

    Agreed