Let's Take a look at DCUO's MMO Structure.

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by XODUIS, Jul 1, 2015.

  1. XODUIS Committed Player

    With each update the Business Model and MMO model of DCUO seems to keep contradicting each other. Most infamous would be GU47.

    The purpose of a MMO is to make a single player experience but with a huge playerbase. Now when there are two playerbases but with a HUGE gap in between them to make the bridge, the lower tier players reach that gap and just ultimately quit. The higher tier players never even look back. The gap, you ask is Tier 1-5.

    Now with the higher tier players having zero incentive to go back and do the old content, the gap is bigger. Now as you can see Tier 1-5 is a HUGE gap between us and them. If you think i am exaggerating, take a look at your LFG and see how many people are shouting for FoS/Batcave/Khandaq and compare that with the tier 6 and 7 content. Exactly. New players can never reach across that gap without the help of the higher players.

    You're probably saying "Well why don't the new players just bridge the gap themselves like we did?". That's because we had a very large playerbase to do that. With the numbers dwindling, it's hard for new players to create their own generation of players. People making Alts on the other hand don't have nearly as bad. They usually have friends willing to go back and carry them through content so they can cross that gap. But new players don't as they're going into DCUO blind.

    Now, let's talk about population. On my level 17, it took and I counted, 37 minutes and 15 seconds for me to finally queue into Gorilla Island. We got through it no problem, but as you can see that is MORE than enough time for the average player to finally give up and Close Application (Which a new player would do in a heartbeat.) Imagine being a new player with no friends, and trying to do a raid that absolutely no one plays anymore. Terrible, correct?

    Don't get me wrong. This isn't some Bash DCUO post, I wouldn't be playing the game and on the forums if i wanted DCUO to fail. I am desperately trying to help Daybreak see these errors and try to correct them before it's too late. I would love to have a chat or phone call with Mepps or someone else of importance to truly discuss how to save DCUO.
    • Like x 16
  2. SethZoulMonEl 10000 Post Club

    I'd imagine it's more like tier 2-5 or 3-5. The first tier usually has a pretty high population due to new players and people on alts that are still excited to play. Queue times tend to increase around tier 2 or 3 in my experience.

    Your experience with Gorilla Island was different than what I usually see. Were you queuing with role optional on or off? Remember that the default is on, so new players will likely run with it set to on and only play the damage role.
    • Like x 2
  3. Delta795 New Player

    I don't have a problem with a new player being able to "catch up" to higher tiers as I believe that once there and playing with the larger population that that would make them stick more often than not. This does present a problem as in the past though as these players have also been the ones most likely to NOT know how to effectively play their respective role.

    I will disagree with you on the "zero incentive to go back and do the old content"
    I see this quite frequently in the single mark debates that rage on here. Here is my question....aside from the monthly marks you would get out of DOX / NEX / A&B why else were you running lower content?

    I know myself it wasn't for more marks, as I was usually well above 100k 90% of the time. The only reason I would go into lower CR was for styles or feats. I would usually form a group to run FOS3 (3min) Gates (8min) Nex (15 min) Dox (15min) A&B (15min) exactly 1X per month which in total time used up was about 1hr per month. Khandag / Batcaves / Veng / Dawn and many many others have been a ghost town for a LONG time now.
    • Like x 3
  4. Jumpnit Dedicated Player

    I going to have to disagree with you on this one, the reason you dont see people asking for lower content's raid is because they are the worst way to lvl. Yes it is very hard to form a full group for lower raids no agrument there however doing raids is by far the slowest and most impractical way to lvl till you get to Tier 5. The "large" gap you are talking about can be crossed in a single week with zero replays spent. There are many lvl guides on this forum that new players can use to cross that gap very quickly. The problem I see is not the lvl system but the lack of information in-game. This game does a very poor job of explaining anything in-game wether that is how your role and support skills work to simple thing like the base damage of abilities or strength of support skills. And this lack of information is IMO harder to overcome then simple not being able to que for raids.
    • Like x 1
  5. XODUIS Committed Player

    It was on im pretty sure as i was the only one running support while everyone else was DPS
    • Like x 1
  6. XODUIS Committed Player

    When i played heavily, we still had T5 players going back and doing the old content, but it was for styles/feats/fun. Now with every mark being turned into Marks of Victory, they have no reason to go back and do that since they don't earn any Marks. This applies especially to the people who were rushed through content. I am also not exempt from this. Due to me having all the styles from that era and feats, there's no reward in me running it except for old fun's sake.
    • Like x 1
  7. XODUIS Committed Player


    But doesn't those guides create all the inexperienced players who rush through content without truly learning their roles? Raids are where you truly learn your roles and how to be a good player. Anyone can just rush thorugh doing Alerts/Duos/Solo.
    • Like x 2
  8. thedemonocus Loyal Player

    the way the last few updates have gone it looks more like they are not interested in saving this game or getting new players it looks more like they just want to get as much money out of the current player base as possible and let the game die.

    its all about selling replays and micro transactions now,just look at the end game alone you can only get to cr 124 by grinding for vendor gear then you are limited to just doing the raids to pass 124 and then theres the elite raid that can only be done after doing the reg version but heres the kicker if you unlock the elite raid its loot locked so you have to use replays to get any reward and if you wait till the next week it just locks up again (unless this has been fixed) its a clear cash grab.

    gu47 did a lot to hurt this game and people spoke up before it went live but our voices fell on deaf ears and the game got worse because the devs ignored us and now people can't find groups or lower content and the population (whats left of it) is even more split and the game is slowly becoming unplayable.

    on june 27 my sub ran out and i never renewed it and am on a break from this game,i check the forums still and do hope the devs get it together and save this game but its not looking very promising .i do plan to come back in a few months or so if the game isn't dead by then.its sad to see what was once 1 of my favourite games get destroyed by bad decisions and if it does die it will be a shame because this game has so much potential to be great but its being held back by greed and stupidity
  9. XODUIS Committed Player


    Which is exactly what i meant when i said the MMO Structure and the Business structure of this game contradicts itself. It's really bad with each update and only worsens.
    • Like x 1
  10. Backseid Devoted Player

    Not for DPS. People always talk about bad DPS. Bad DPS are those that primarily play raids.
  11. toast Well-Known Player

    Ive noticed thats its more hit or miss, with high level players in lower content. one day you could queue for any lower tier content and get in fairly quickly with a mix group of lower and high tier players. other days its vacant. 2 days ago, with a fresh 53 toon, i queued for every alert i could all at once. nothing for over an hour. so i run solo content. yesterday i queued for the same alerts plus the T2 duos, got in with only a 5 minute wait each time i queued.

    in flashback I was paired with a 125 fire guy. even though i wasnt putting out any where near the same amount of damage he was, i was holding my own. we got to piper, down in 15 seconds. I think the 125 didnt want me to feel left out so he let me do some damage to him first then he killed him. we get to abra, and within one second of us being able to hit him he was down. the 125 says, wtf no loot, then leaves. i get the blues & greens then leave. I checked to see if i was loot locked and i wasnt. i send the 125 a tell with this info and he apologizes up and down. offers to run it again. i say no worries, you got me the speed and final trick feats and you broke abra and thats hilarious.
  12. Derio 15000 Post Club

    37 min? I would say that is a very short que time, especially for a DPS.

    I do agree about the t1-t5. Since skillpoints were made unnecessary in GU47 there is no reason to go back to old content. Especially considering you get no marks and can buy old styles through the vendors now.

    Hopefully they have more planned other than the monthly content releases.
  13. Marek Committed Player


    Wait, u can buy old styles from the vendors now? U mean from rare styles vendor or all vendors are selling styles they never had before?

    I took a break from the game for a couple months so i might have missed what changed. Curious as to what styles are actually being sold now. Or are u just talking about tier gear from vendors u have to scroll down to find?
  14. willflynne 10000 Post Club

    Then they weren't just doing it for styles/feats/fun then. If they were doing it for styles, feats and fun the lack of Mark rewards shouldn't matter.
    • Like x 1
  15. spack2k Steadfast Player

  16. Xanoth Dedicated Player


    While I totally agree with your post/sentiment, I don't really agree with that bit, although frankly what constitutes an MMO has been changes so much since the early MMOs that frankly to even bringing it up makes me feel old. All of this is besides the point.

    You're right and I've also mentioned it before.

    Every new DLC pushes players further and further away from mid tier content and stretches what is considered mid tier content further segregation players. Currently there is little to no incentive to run old content (most long term players have the feats).

    Current CR scaling generally means running old content with players in tier is painful and undesirable, especially with the confirmed issues with T4/T5 that have some enemies 1 shot players in tier with no skull warning (currently foot stomp AE hits for about 12k when in tier for T4, it has no warning and about a 1s animation at best).

    Obviously when tiers are expanded for 3-4 DLC it helps a bit like with T6, although now we're all bunched up in T7 (for those that went over 116 that doesn't help much any more as you've only got AF2 content).

    Also the more this happens the more we see people that just get carried or crawling (mostly solo play) to the top and still can't play their roles properly).

    Ideally I think we really do need stat clamping for the queue (with walk-ins available for unclamped play), then have some incentive to get players playing all content of all tiers while clamped.

    the general server populations doesn't feel much worse than it ever was mid DLC at least since I've played, but there does seem to be a lot less activity for LFG outside of top tier.
  17. Kid Multiverse Loyal Player

    I think it would be huge for the game's health if there were some incentive outside of styels and feats for higher tiers to run lower tier content. I'm not sure if that means scaled up rewards, some new prestige-like currency to spend on iconic items or what. But something needs to be done.
    • Like x 1
  18. DcPlayer313 Committed Player

    I can't disagree with anything OP typed.
    • Like x 1
  19. Pults Loyal Player

    Sinestro in Assult and Battery can do 34k in a single hit. :)
  20. Xanoth Dedicated Player


    Is that not from the man hunters not being stunned, or are you talking about physical attack against non-tank?

    A&B is one of the more balanced T5 zones, Sinestro was brutal before GU47, he doesn't feel too different now. Only noticeable difference really is DPS required to go full burn is way higher due to scaling, I've only seen burn work once (Post GU47) and that still ended up with all tubes being destroyed before Sinestro was down.

    Currently With A Vengeance ghost and atlantean bosses will kill anyone under level 80 in a single foot stomp every 10-20s, tanks will live, that's about it, blocking mitigates it down to about 3-4k but it's sheer luck or just perma block, as there is no real tell for the foot stomp. It's fixed in GU50, but currently it's brutal and why so many players need high CR players to get them through those raids (Prime and Gates aren't as bad, prime being a nightmare before GU47 for new players anyway ;) ). This is stuff that's confirmed broken and is being fixed though and coupled with new T4 content that's coming with GU50 it should make a nice time to push a new alt through that content (and I've got two characters in their late 60s on hold waiting for it).

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