Lernaes amulet

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by gemii, Dec 19, 2020.

  1. gemii Dedicated Player

    Was this artifact meant to ignore hitting the finisher and continuously playing with high stacks on 10 as long as you have two healers in the group? If so how was this ever a good idea to let players have a constant 30% buff through a raid.

    That is pretty broken when you think about it

    Don’t get me wrong I like the concept of the artifact but I mean there is zero risk when you have two healers in the raid. And you have powers like fire and gadgets that have moves in there rotation that can reduce damage taken that other powers have no access too.

    Most powers need to hit a finisher to do decent enough damage on single target so a lot of powers don’t even really work with the artifact to its fullest potential anyway

    Again I love the concept of the artifact but it’s to powerful in the form it’s in and it’s not for all powersets.

    In my opinion it should not matter if you have two or even 4 healers in the group. It should be mandatory to hit your finisher at some point. Players are comfortably sitting on 10 stacks without the use of a finisher.
  2. AV Loyal Player

    The other day we tested riding max stacks on various powers and Amulet's closed the gap between the top (vs Sparring Target) might powers and the rest of the field a good deal. Some of those top powers aren't safe going all-in with Amulet with their nominal rotation no matter how many healers they have or have other mitigating considerations, or they have protections but chip could result in them self-inflicting a ton of damage and in general just weakening their shields. It's proven to be a good equalizer and some powers will still do better without it. Even on a fairly "safe" power with it, I wouldn't want to use it without pretty high SP, and every power that's above average accepts greater risks with it.

    Even on some of the safest powers with it, it still takes care to use or a player will kill get themselves killed with it in elite even in solid groups if they aren't cognizant of their power costs and attack timing relative to incoming bursts. It's not as simple as being a 30% buff (which is also a % mod buff and not a raw stat gain, so it's only based on our raw might stat and not further inflated by other modifiers). Will also be an outright damage loss if the player doesn't maintain stacks while dealing with mechanics. Pretty much the only power that has virtually no meaningful risk while using it is Electricity, which is also the power that needs Amulet the most in order to have a chance to meet the rest of the field.
    • Like x 2
  3. DamageControlPS Active Player

    People are literally playing with fire in any content that has any type of damage coming in it’s their choice, mostly any hard content you would rarely use this. Even when you do it’s not that op. Risk and reward if you don’t like this artifact don’t bother try to nerf it for no reason at all. Can’t just watch few videos of it in action and make a thread about it but then again you clearly been busy tonight by trying to change the game from your perspective.
  4. gemii Dedicated Player

    Hmm was this test server testing by any chance.

    Just asking because I can show a clip of somebody using the amulet without a finisher even in his loadout during a COUE run

    Not sure if you can post YouTube stuff on here though I can pm if you want
  5. AV Loyal Player


    It's the same in either case. Also, one doesn't have to be in combat to know how safe it will be in Elite on a given rotation as long as they have a baseline of experience with the content. Amulet isn't a "put this on and you will automatically pwn" artifact and every power has its own best builds and considerations for different situations.

    Amulet requires different rotations altogether, and in Gadgets' case the rotation results in a ~5% drop in long range base DPS before factoring the Amulet in, making it even more critical for the power to get its short/mid range executions in as much as possible (which in current content requires skill and knowledge and will still get people killed at times for trying), places it at increased risk, and if it doesn't get enough of its short range execution in it will fall behind. It also must sacrifice 2% DPS to use Amulet in the first place.

    It's the same with Mental, ie. its short range remains high tier but its mid and long ranged performance falls off by ~8-12% on top of the 2% given up to be able to use Amulet and it's hardest hitting execution can just lose a ton of damage if Psychic Prison is placed poorly or RNG decides the boss just up and peaces out of it. Of the other above average (raw) powers, Light will die while holding 10 stacks (a lot) and already has to use Grimorium Verum unless someone else is establishing PI for it.

    All of those tradeoffs boost the entire field, the previously best raw dmg powers have to sacrifice more to make it work and accept additional risks in so doing. Some random video showing someone doing well isn't useful for gauging actual performance, especially when the actual spectrum of performance possibilities is known.
    • Like x 2
  6. Rejchadar Inquisitor

    A few small but very important remarks about the way of assessing this particular artifact, as well as any artifacts in general.

    You can't just look at the numbers in the amplification description if the artifact itself requires changes in rotation. For a complete picture, you have to compare the DPS when using the meta-set of artifacts with optimal rotation and modified rotation, and only then can you estimate the real increase in DPS.

    It is also impossible to look at an artifact from the perspective of a personal DPS if the artifact affects the structure of the whole group (if in our case, for the same safety in comparison with other DPS artifacts, an additional healer is needed (or a significant load on one healer (this reduces the number of groups able to maintain an acceptable tempo level)), then despite the increase in personal DPS, the DPS of the whole group remains the same or decreases, this also affects the comfort of the whole group).

    You cannot evaluate any artifact from a video (do you understand that people post their most successful videos?);)

    sorry for the bad english ...
    • Like x 1
  7. Miike Fury Well-Known Player

    so what powers benefit the MOST from using this versus which powers benefit the least?
  8. gemii Dedicated Player

    I will just pm batuba some videos and ask him myself and hope for a response. Players posting there most successful video does not defeat the point that players are able to successfully run the artifact without even putting a finisher in there loadout. So how deep really is the risk?
  9. AV Loyal Player

    Deep enough that even on one of the safer powers with it, it takes both a good healer to sustain and if you don't time certain powers correctly the combination of Offering plus burst will routinely be fatal (and that's on a player with 595 SP and over 225k health in content when DPSing). Even with the best healers in the game it's not just "put this on and press buttons and you'll win." Most healers struggle to sustain the safer powers with it in general under fairly tame circumstances. If it was any more dangerous than it is, it would be virtually unusable in Elite (or really anywhere) and overall balance would suffer because the performance gap would go back to being broader. Also, if riding 10 stacks wasn't possible, the artifact would be completely worthless because its average buff would be insufficient to justify use in even best case scenarios, let alone in realistic applications where stacks will sometimes end up resetting while dealing with stuff.

    Edit: Trans/Strat still works better for some powers and has zero risk whatsoever. Same with Prec. Not getting why you think there's anything broken about a high risk artifact that requires not only care from the player using it but additional support players to use in the first place, all for it to surpass the next best setup by a few percentage points n actual practice.
  10. Dogico Loyal Player

    Not sure why you just hand wave away "needs two healers yo be successful" as if every group will happily run two healers just to accommodate one dps.
  11. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    You see, the problem was that they had already implemented every way they could think of to F prec DPS’s in the A. But just when they were in the depths of despair over having played all their cards already, a big fat Ace fell out of the sleeve. Let’s give might DPS’s a 30% buff artifact RIGHT after nerfing the Venom Wrist to 16%! That’ll surely guarantee a visit to their proctologist in the very near future! BOOYAH!
    • Like x 2