Ladies & Gentleman

The way I see it, I average close to 2 mill dmg out (anywhere between 1.7 and 1.9) on the t6a with no wipes, while keeping at a steady 3-3.5 mil healing out, thanks to WM. I am not spec'd as a battle healer. None of my healer role gear is dps, and I always focus on the healing first, and I can STILL put out decent damage.

I feel like that, combined with the value of keeping the group alive, more than makes of for the minuscule amount of burn lost.


These new added capabilities, combined with a DPS that is worth their salt, or at least doesn't suck the big one, makes running with one dps not really as big a time sink as everyone is saying it is.

Great point!
I believe unfortunately that is why some people are trying to run 2-1-1 set ups. DPS are either on point or they need serious back up. Like serrrrrrrrrrious back up. This is a legitamite problem in raids more so than alerts IMO, but that another can of worms in itself.

Very nice to see a thread offering advice that isn't ignorant and insulting like "OMG PUT UR OWN GROUPS TOGETHER". Do you not think we've tried to put our own groups together?... Whenever we try, it's always a guaranteed "2 HEALER?" or "2 TANK?" or "2 DPS?" and then you respond to their question with yes and they respond "SORRY I GO" or if they're malicious "LOL NOOB U CANT DO WITH 2 DPS" maybe even something worse.

I do like the idea of a 2-2-2-2 chat channel, but I personally don't know of anyone on these forums who has a main on EUPS Villains. Let alone someone on EUPS Villains who desires the 2-2-2-2 formula.

If anyone from EUPS servers is interested in this idea, though, collaborate and lets get it going. Heroes or villains.

Isn't that proof that it's not popular and shouldn't be forced on people when the content doesn't demand it?

I'm all for making cotent that makes us want to run 2-2-2-2 and 1-1-1-1 setups, but I think most players want to do things fast and efficiently, so when the content doesn't demand that group setup they don't want to use it.

Your post here is exactly what I've been hoping someone would finally admit in response to the "put your own group together" because that's the point, most people don't want this right now.

It's the same argument as people who said "just wear lower gear if you want a challenge" sure, I can, and I'm down to, but now I have to find 7 other people who think that same way, 7 other people who play the same times as me that are willing to do things for the fun of the challenge and not the reward, and willing to farm a lower set of gear and hold on to it wasting precious inventory room. It's unreasonable.

Just like this is unreasonable. I can fin 7 other people to do challenging and rewarding content with me NP. But when you take the rewards away the people willing disappear. Same here, when the content demands it there will be people running it, but when it doesn't, they will prefer whichever method gets them through quickest and easiest, it's just how it is.

Kinda paints my pro-2-2-2-2 argument/campaign as though I'm a dictator trying to force everyone to play 2-2-2-2. Which isn't and has never been the case for the record. The post in my signature is an idea which is designed to entice people into running 2-2-2-2 or at least not be hostile towards players who want to run 2-2-2-2 because they know the buffs would keep the speed that a stacked DPS group would offer.

That post has 60+ likes, possibly even 70+ (it's been a while since I checked). If I could assemble us all on the same server and the same faction and run a league or chat channel which only operates balanced runs, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But we're all on different platforms, servers and factions so it's impossible. Then the developers wouldn't need to step in.

Sure the new raids will inevitably require 2-2-2-2 but for how long? How long until that second tank is history? or that second healer is done? The community will start looking on Test server for ways to stack DPS and it'll be a matter of time before the balanced way is once again the slowest way to beat content and thus back to the DPS game.

That's the nature of MMOs. As things become easier you don't need the defense and you drop it for offense.

It's in every mmo, it's been part of every mmo since the start of MMOs, fighting is just creates a static rigid play style that personally I wouldn't want. I want freedom to do what I think is best. Play how I want to play. Play with whoever I want to play with.

What you suggest in your thread I have some issues with. It would create a system where 2-2-2-2 is hands down the best in every measureable category. The buffs are extreme and would easily ensure that. But you know what would happen? With WM you don't need power so either one troll would be in full DPS and focusing on DPS, or potentially even both being in DPS gear. 1 tank is enough for most things so 1 tank would be in DPS gear. if you still only need solo healing then 1 healer would be in DPS gear. At that point... what's the point? Isn't it the same thing? i mean half the "support" aren't even support, they're DPS.

That's exactly my problem we're artificially forcing people into situations they didn't choose. Then we're getting mad and frustrated because they're finding ways to avoid those artificial barriers. People are trying to fight the nature of the game. That DPS is going to be stacked as high as possible always. If you want us to stop stacking DPS then put us in a situation that has us going "damn, we need more defense" then we'll stack enough defense... and continue to stack as much DPS as we can with the new level of required defense.

I say stop trying to force peopel to play certain ways. Stop making the game a convoluted mess. And start just letting the content decide how people run things. If you want us to want 2 tanks, do something with the content to make us feel 2 tanks is worthwhile, that hasn't happened in this game yet.

Not at trying to knock you down on the 2-2-2-2 raid set up. I read through your thread and +1 it.

The main objective of this thread mainly fixated on the current issue in the T6A.

I'm not disagreeing with what you wrote above at all I just want to ensure we stay on topic.

I applaud you for wanting to set up a 2-2-2-2 chat as I really believe the more that know about it the more would want to try.

I will also add there are many reasons people would want to go with a traditional set up besides the obvious smoothness of that run.

Maybe just maybe some people are wanting a break from all the speed runs and would prefer a more regulated run with not as much pressure. (Please don't confuse this into me favoring either way of running content )

The passive buffs I wrote in the original thread were merely examples to help explain the idea (history has taught me people don't read posts and skip to the most convenient part, hence the graphic, which I knew people would view and then comment on, rather than the post which explains everything).

The buffs would require play testing. It would probably be discovered that all the buffs aren't required except for the DPS ones. Then running 2-2-2-2 offers no distinct advantage over imbalanced groups, yet it keeps the burn rate high. What that means is the developers can design content to challenge the most common group breakdowns (1-1-4-2 at the moment) without flat out alienating the 2-2-2-2 set up.

Again, it wasn't designed to be the only option. It was designed to be an option. 2-2-2-2 isn't an option at the minute. Not because it doesn't work, but because it doesn't work in the eyes of the community. It'd be a great option for those who suck and can't beat the instances. It also provides the developers an opportunity to create content that has an extra level of challenge if the buffs aren't being taken advantage off which means elite leagues and players have the opportunity to push themselves to the limit without the developers needing to create "Expert" raids or whatever.

u lost me here .... european guy.

Instead of working I am posting a thread. Tax dollars in the US go to ridiculous amount of government agencies, programs, etc etc etc.

EDIT: It was a small joke is all

Yeah that pictures kinda drown out the rest of the post hehe, I just saw those and went "MY GOD!" lol.

I just really think adding more systems on top of the game is just going to cause even more problems. I mean heck look at the other threads going on complaining about hte no-role buffs, which were put in to fix another content/community issue.

The problem to me is people reluctance to accept what really is the true nature of MMOs. You stack DPS as much as you can only bringing as much defense as you need at a bare minimum and that's whawt makes up optimal play in MMOs.

With that, if they want to encourage more balanced builds they need to do so with content.

Want 2 trollers needed? well make us use power, WM broke that.

Want 2 tanks? make us want 2 tanks, have bosses that hit stupid hard so we want to split them between 2 tanks.

Want 2 healers? make us take damage, not just a bunch of avoidable one shots, but have us take huge DoTs that need a lot of group healing. stuff like that is how you make more of a need for healers.

All the problems could be fixed through content, without creating a convoluted mess of systems on top of the game itself.

Advising people to start their own groups is neither ignorant or insulting. The threads people have started start out, "I shouted in LFG".... If you're you to shout in LFG to join a group you're at the mercy of someone else's ideal set up. If you want to run the alert the way you want, find like minded people as you. I don't think anyone's flat out said how you want to run your alert is wrong. There is no wrong way to run it. You're allowed to run any set up you want.

Do you not have friends or leaguemates that run the alert similar to how you like to run it? Have you not met some people from the forums that have the same view point as you that you could run with?

What I see here is a lot of people clamoring over an alert. It's an alert. It's not a T6 raid. We have no idea how the raid is going to be. You're not being forced to run a certain way. If you decide to run it the way you don't want to, that's on you. Get together with some people that like to run it the way you do.

Did you put up this big of stink when tanks were being left out of BIA/FAM? Were you this vocal when Nexus was being run with 1 tank and 1 healer? Are all of your raids run with the 2-2-2-2 set up? I'd be very surprised if they were.

I don't get how people are now mad that healers are being left out of groups but weren't so upset about tanks being left out of alerts for the longest time. It's an alert. An alert should and can be run any way YOU want. I do not want the devs stepping in and forcing us to play the way YOU want the community to play.

Quoted for truth!

Yeah I in all honesty content really dictates the level in which we run it and as you have stated the game currently allows us to run with groups that are irregular or out of the ordinary set up. Ie offensive heavy.

Pure speculation here, but I believe WM may stay as is with a few tweaks here and there because of what DLC 11 has to offer... My face is starting to turn blue thooooooo

Blue because you ahve so much power now that you can just WM spam?

Really if they leave WM how it is, the game and controllers are just dead. It's just such a terrible game breaking setup to allow people near (or in celestial's case fully) optimal damage with 0 power out.

Be a little more open minded and you may have some fun.

Too many people hide behind the same excuse as to not run it that way. That is getting old and boring. Its the same all the time and maybe these people want to see something they don't usually see.

I'll make the tab when I log on. I'm down for it.

I was pretty sure your intellect and common sense would catch that!

Yup, I'm really hoping / praying / begging for little tweaks like that.

Another thread but, exactly my point

Right on! I'm really liking the feedback of you guys trying this out I really think it will have a positive impact in game and lessen up some of the hate from those that post on here. Best of luck!

Actually it is very ignorant and insulting. Do you not think we haven't tried? I am referring mainly of course to raids, as opposed to the T6A. I personally have tried to form 2-2-2-2 raids in 2014. I have been met with insults, ignorance and at one point a healer who decided the burn wasn't to his high standards, didn't want to help our healer learn the raid anymore and switched to DPS during the fight and caused us all to wipe then blaming us all and calling us noobs before trying to disband the instance.

Nope, I don't have friends or league mates because my friends and league mates have decided this game isn't for them any more and have quit playing. I'd love to make new friends but the trouble is I play on the European servers and there's absolutely no way of filtering out players who can't speak English. You're lucky if you find someone who speaks the same language as you, let alone shares the same opinions as you. I would love to play with some of the like-minded people here on the forums, but for the most part they are on the US servers or a different faction or a different platform all together. With no way to jump, I'm stuck or face having to start the character I've spent the last 3 years building up, all over again from scratch.

I didn't need to make a big stink when tanks were being left out of BIA/FAM because I always ran with my Tank friend or not at all. In fact, I earned all the marks for my Manta gear running every single operation 1-1-1-1. I wasn't even aware people were doing it but if I did, then yes. I also kicked up a stink when the second tank was removed from Nexus, too, as it usually resulted in a 4 hour long run of Nexus. I gave up on Paradox after every group I attempted it with would flat out refuse to take a second tank in then couldn't beat the first boss.

I'm more sick of the DPS focus that this game has. Everything is about the DPS. The enemies in the new T6 content have huge health which automatically makes people arrive at the conclusion that DPS are a must but they can get by without support roles because the enemies hit like they're wearing sponges. The developers do nothing to discourage this. Instead buffing groups who lack certain roles, encouraging people to always run imbalanced which causes a deficit in support roles and also means that players are forced into situations where they don't have the skills or experience to solo heal/tank/troll content.

I could use the last line against your defence too.

I appreciate what you are attempting to do with this thread OP. I have never been one to come to the forums just to complain about a new DLC or new mechanics but I will say the T6A did change that for me and I found myself much more frustrated than I had intended. I typically Heal or Battle Heal depending on the situation. Most folks I am encountering are not even accepting the Battle Heal stance and just want straight DPS. I have been booted from groups before the alert even began just for having healer/dps stance. I create my own groups and people leave even though I explain I can do both and I eventually have to disban. I have resigned myself to the fact that for the next 3 months, my only option will be DPS for the new content and I am making peace with it for now. To me, it's unfortunate because I have trained as a battle healer for most of my time on the game. I supported Tanks when they were not needed in T5 and always shouted for them when grouping. Now, I can't even get into the T6A with the gear/role I enjoy and have to work as a DPS so it's frustrating. The most frustrating part is that having the healer really doesnt increase the time of the alert by that much. I have ran as DPS with group in 20 minutes and with a healer just below 28 minutes. But people really need that extra couple minutes I suppose.

Easy man that's my SISTER your'e speaking too!!!

All jokes aside, I feel bad that you are finding the most arrogant / ignorant people on your EU server. ( I assume PUG life at its absolute worse )

Look man, I'm very sorry you lost your League. Myself and BRITTENY have gone through that pain together. It sucks.

But, using it as a defense as to why you are finding yourself with arrogant/ignorant pugs is not a very good one. You stated that you have trouble finding people who have like mindsets and speak your language???

Cmon, You've been playing for a while and I know you frequent the forums... Have you not glanced through the League Recruitment Threads. I'm 100% sure you would find your fix there

Being a tank as long as I have I went through the BIA/FAM days mainly as a DPS. You were very fortunate you had a solid 1-1-1-1 setup many did not... Still don't :/ As far as making a stink because a group of people did not want to run with two tanks in Nexus makes you no better than the ones requesting 1. It is the same thing dude just a different perspective. Did you accomplish your raid? Yes, just not as fast as you said 4 hours...

Paradox required/still kinda requires solid teamwork, good communication, and most of all situational awarness!!

"Instead buffing groups who lack certain roles, encouraging people to always run imbalanced which causes a deficit in support roles and also means that players are forced into situations where they don't have the skills or experience to solo heal/tank/troll content."

IMO it is the introduction to T6 and 3+ years into the game as I have stated in other threads. Groups run imbalanced set - ups for a number of reasons... One of the main ones are for a challenge. Anohter solid second is for speed. These small role buffs would not affect these groups of people at all if they are present or removed.

Let me digress, those that "think" they can run this way, but are not experienced enough will have a rough time or fail.
Either way both groups will progress and get better some faster than the other So no I disagree it is not setting a deficit in support roles. Not to mention all roles are still be utilized in raids more frequently than they are not.

But this jumped wayyyyyyyyyy of topic I just wanted to share some of my thoughts with you. Good luck finding a solid team to wreck shop with