Kick Mechanic = Natural Selection Grief Tool

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by FutureMan, Feb 3, 2015.

  1. FutureMan New Player

    Why the Kick Mechanic is a Horrible Mechanic and should be removed or fixed.

    I was a 2011 first day signup and loved the game full time until the Hack Attack. Very casual player now (a month or two a year), so take this thread from that point of view. For the record, I am a quiet player (no mic) who follows the leaders of the group (the ones who've obviously done the content many times; usually the higher levels), and sincerely tries his best to help the team. Never the highest DPS , but more often second in stat contributions.

    2011 = Raid Grief players would bother groups by standing around doing nothing or just being jerks with their antics of starting bosses, locking rooms, etc.., and there was nothing the group could do about it other than bail on the instance.

    then...

    Fast forward to 2015 = I signed up for a month to check out the game again, hadn't played since Lightning Strikes. Lots of fun content and have played daily for the whole month. The very interesting thing I've noticed is the NEW (at least for me) mechanic on expelling players from group content.

    This is where my short story begins.

    In my month of play I've done the following.
    1) Leveled two toons to 80 (Hero Controller and Villain Healer)
    2) Leveled one toon to 103 (Hero Healer)
    3) Played Mostly Solo and Duo content, but entered about 10 Raids and 10 Alerts.

    This is what I found.

    7 out of 10 Raids = Someone got kicked, I did twice and 5 other times I got a voting message to kick someone.
    6 out of 10 Alerts = I was kicked twice and got 4 voting messages to kick someone.
    All of these instances, the content was moving along fine and no one was mouthing off in chat, we weren't wiping that I can remember. Just random kicking.

    On one of the votes (I voted NO to all of them if it wasn't me being kicked) I asked in chat "Why" and the kicker answered "He's the weakest DPS and we need a strong Tank". On this 4 man alert, I was the healer (103) and decided to leave the instance after the other player added "if you're a good healer we can do this with 2 dps" ; due to this very bad sportsmanship of the other player.

    Why is this NATURAL SELECTION BAD?
    1) It promotes obvious bad sportsmanship.
    2) It requires only ONE other person in an Alert to vote to kick (so if two friends want to grief, it's their playground).
    3) It has NOTHING to do with the original problem of a griefer ruining the match, since it now gives the griefer the power to completely ruin the match.
    4) There is no reason given, just "you've been kicked".
    5) No log file to see who voted to start the kick or voted for it.

    How to FIX the problem
    1) Allow a log that shows the kicked player(s) who participated so that they can avoid those players in the future.
    2) Add a feature (like in EVE Online) that you can flag those players with a bright RED mark that indicates to you immediately that they're on your naughty list. I would like to know who the Natural Selection Griefers are, thank you.
    3) Make it mandatory that ALL players in the ALERT (3 out of 4) want you kicked. This would be an obvious thing to me, since a thorn is a thorn and everyone would want them gone. Make it 6 out of 8 want you gone in a Raid.


    Note: If you just spout "Get a League and you won't have this issue", you're not getting the point; which is.... It's a game and not every instance is going to be perfect, not all players are the best players and PUG groups aren't League groups, so Elite control freaks should not expect to create the perfect world for their personal fun run!

    It's one of those "Why?" moments.

    Best wishes.
    • Like x 15
  2. just an honest dps New Player

    yeah getting a league shouldn't be the solution. that's like telling a girl who got robbed not to carry money in her purse.
    • Like x 10
  3. HazeTA New Player

    No, not removed, certainly not, it's absolutely needed at times. Fixed? Not sure how much what we have now can be improved upon.
    • Like x 4
  4. AnointedPlague Active Player

    If the trolls are out dpsing you I don't see anything wrong with kicking.
    • Like x 2
  5. just an honest dps New Player

    the kicking option should only be used to remove griefers.
  6. FutureMan New Player


    I agree that it is a needed thing at times, but at least make it unanimous and let the kicked person know who did it. If there was some accountability, NS griefers may think twice if they're going to get a reputation for doing it.

    I might add that a player should have a limit to how many times they can start a kick process; say two times a week. It's hard to believe that instances would require that much kicking.. It was comical in my experience.
    • Like x 5
  7. Gucciana Committed Player

    if ya dont like it dont run with them
    groups have the right to decide who comes and goes expecially if people arent keeping up with other

    if ya dont wanna run into those issues form your own groups
    • Like x 1
  8. ErnieB Loyal Player

    You've been gone for way too long and you are still to reach T6, so the thing is now days the kick feature is needed, yes it sucks sometimes people abuse it, but that's the risk we take when pugging, no other way around it, but when you get to the top content and see a tank that doesn't know what aggro is, a healer who rather do damage than heal, a troll who doesn't know PoT, and a dps who's power hungry but his damage is that of a T4 dps team of 8, you will begin to understand why the feature is there.
    • Like x 2
  9. HazeTA New Player


    Yh, I was thinking maybe a kick limit so persistent kickers think twice about abusing the system unnecessarily and I agree that kickers need to be seen by the kickee as-well as it taking far too few votes to kick.
    • Like x 1
  10. FutureMan New Player

    I get it.... but you're describing League content and not PUGs.
    It's not any one player's fault really, it's the Dev's who make the content and the kick feature.

    The KICK feature is just so insulting and bad for the game in general as it is being used. It's suppose to be a HERO type of game or at least a "We Fight Together and Die Together" song to be sung. I look at kickers as weak players who should play solo or in leagues only; not pick up groups.

    Yes, I've been gone for a long time, and I think my next run will be similar due to so many poor sports playing the game.
    I will try a run with anyone, and give it our best shot. Where's the fun in winning easy; it's boring and a grind. I only bail if someone is being a jerk and complaining. Cr111 doesn't mean you're good or worthy, it just means you play a lot.

    For the record; I tried the T5 Raid Nexas "the one that wipes everyone" about six different times with pickup groups. This is the only Raid that NO One kicked anyone because players would leave on their own after just a few short minutes of attempting it. I know it's been done many times, but my CR is 103 on my healer with all healer gear all modded to V and was blocking with Hive Mind active, full health= and BAM ; one shot dead... over and over. wipe after wipe, until each group just bails. The CR rating on that Raid is 86 ; what a joke! .. at least adjust the CR to what it should be around 107
    • Like x 3
  11. Makineko Committed Player

    Is it necessary-yes
    Is it abused-very much so
    for 2 reasons mostly
    A) Some players will just vote yes to clear it from their screen and not pay any attention to what is being asked
    B) It's too easy to use atm.
    • Like x 3
  12. Kharhaz Committed Player

    Quite right. I have thought for a long time the kick feature is not being used in its intended format. I used to pug a lot, and while it was nice meeting new people and players, you would get the odd one in a group who typified arrogance. The one who would kick people because they never met the standards they set.

    I also agree with the flagging and 3 out of 4 vote. I ran with a friend many times and one of us has been booted for the daftest of reasons, and it is simply unfair. The kicking feature is being abused, and has been for a long time. I would like a reputation system in place, if someone has a high rep, then they generally represent the group as a whole, and gain points for team work and positive attitudes and also lose points for negative attitudes and failed kicks. I think this could easily be implemented.

    Nobody should ever be kicked from anything unless they are seriously hindering the groups due to negative attitudes.

    It annoys me no end when people are trying to level up and are being kicked due to not being at higher level players standards.
    • Like x 4
  13. Antwoman Dedicated Player

    I agree with this thread. Since I believe they will not remove nor should they remove Inspect I think they should add number of times you started a kick to it. Also this is more of a culture thing the players just sometimes go with the flow and vote without looking at what they are voting for either some jus trying to get loot.
    • Like x 3
  14. Aqua Surge Loyal Player

    It needs to be resolved, I randomly queued arkham for the iconic one hand item and a cr72 guy did nothing the entire time. When I realized this I was going to kick him but started the scarecrow fight too early. I killed the boss and was going to kick the guy for the pugs but the dude started a kick on the lower random pugs in the alert and the other random voted yes because he didn't know better and maybe didn't know what it meant. I tried to kick him again but they both opened the instance and another random came in and he started a vote to kick me. The strongest overpowered player in the group.

    Those pugs didn't know better like I said and I gotten kicked. I did not care but this adds to the reason why the kick system needs to be fixed. For one, a weak *** player should not be able to kick someone stronger than him, Two, if they did nothing at all to help with the content then they shouldn't even be allowed to kick someone. 3, the 5 minute kick delay option is way to long. Make it 3. Even if I wanted to kick the guy I couldn't do so anyway because you can get to scarecrow under the 5 minutes which is why he abused it afterwards.

    This happened last month BTW.
    • Like x 2
  15. ErnieB Loyal Player

    ok first, I am talking about PuGs, and second, Nexus is the easiest raid around, honestly it sounds to me like you have issues with your power or gear, or just bad groups, are you on USPS or USPC?
    • Like x 2
  16. ChuckLess New Player

    It is way too easy to kick someone and have absolutely 0 accountability.

    I've said it a hundred times. Put a 5 minute timer on kicking. Keep the person to be kicked in the instance until the timer expires.

    This will do two things:
    • People will think twice about the kick
    • People may actually explain the reason to the person being kicked
    The system as is is terrible and has been completely neglected by the Devs. I can only imagine how many players we have lost due to this issue.
    • Like x 6
  17. Solarverse2 New Player

    He never said to remove it, and he gave plenty of suggestions to improve the system.
  18. Solarverse2 New Player

    Sounded to me like he knew why the feature was there. Problem is, it's far too easy for some random a-hole who opens up the kick option with zero reasons given, and all it takes is half the team to kick the player. Nine times out of ten, the players who are voting to kick, don't even know why they are kicking...they just...do.

    I was a Healer on a team that had already been established, and a the Tank of the team decided to open a kick option against me, because that Tank and I, had had it out a couple days prior. Half the team said, "No, don't kick!", while the other half simply did it because the Tank told them to, having no clue what-so-ever why they were kicking me, they just did, despite the other half of the team asking them not to kick me.

    Rewind two days: That same tank had joined our team, he started going on and on how CR 85's can't run A&B and they should all be kicked. I told him otherwise, he got belligerent so I got belligerent in return. I told the guy we didn't need jerks coming in to an already existing team and starting crap with his elitist attitude, and if he didn't like the team set-up, then to was free to quit. Apparently another player got tired of his mouth, so they opened up a vote to kick him...I gladly voted yes, and kicked he was. Obviously he had a grudge... We got a new, lower CR Tank, and beat it with only a couple wipes.

    Fast forward back to me getting kicked, and people not having any clue why, if the OPs idea had been implemented, it would be far less likely that people would be getting kicked just because of grievers, as it would take a unanimous decision to remove a player, instead of only a couple clueless players and a loud mouth fool. Had the OP's ideas already been implemented, I would not have been kicked, and the griever on that team would not have gotten his way.

    Going back to the OP, I think he knows full well why the system is there, he is simply pointing out the obvious, that other people are unwilling to change; the fact that it is a very flawed system and needs to be reworked.
    • Like x 7
  19. WildPegasusrs Dedicated Player

    As it was once suggested before, simply inverting Yes and No in the menu from the Kick choices popping on others' screen should already decrease the amount of unecessary kicks. Kicks done with that system would definitely be a wanted one and not a "whatever just get this yellow arrow out of my screen, I'll click as quick as possible to close it since it's not loot!".
    • Like x 3
  20. c6relic New Player

    I've only kicked when we notice a player is just moving with us, but not participating, or if he hasn't revived himself after clearing a stage or there afk.

    And this is from running with PUGs, they've used the kicking feature as it was intended at least.